The Clausing 1300 lathe I recently aquired has a lever operated Royal
5C collet closer which works fine, but I want to install a chuck. It looks like the collet holder in the spindle will need to come out, as it is larger in diameter than the O.D. of the D1-4 locating cone on the spindle nose. Whats the correct way to remove the adapter from the spindle nose bore?
Apparently, from another discussion, it is to reach through the spindle (after pulling the drawbar (and collet). Pulling the drawbar requires pulling a lever hinge screw first), and using a brass rod, drive it out with gentle taps around the circumference.
Now -- for mine, a 5418 Clausing with a L-00 spindle nose has a protective collar over the nose which will press on the back of the flange on the collet adaptor as you unscrew the draw-in ring which mounts the chucks.
The original spindle in this lathe, a 2-1/4x8 threaded spindle, had a threaded collar around the spindle nose to both protect the nose threads and to similarly push on the flange of the collet adaptor.
I don't know whether you have a protector, or whether the D1-4 will apply some outward force when you undo the cams, but at least the brass rod should work for you. For mine, I would probably turn a 3/4" brass rod to a long-stemmed mushroom to give easier access to the back of the closer in the spindle -- but I'm lazy, and the nose protector does a good job for me.
Maybe the brass punch idea is the way to go. I'll have a look to see if I can tell what the punch would actually be hitting against,,,don't really want to be banging on the threaded end of the collet holder even with brass. The only other way I can see is some sort of fork with a slight taper that would fit in the ~ 1/8" gap between the end of the spindle nose and the flange on the collet holder.
I have used the "fork" concept on a number of occasions on Clausing
5914 lathes I have had reason to use (and now own). I think of them as slotted wedges, and generally use a pair of them to get a more equalized force on the spindle and the backside of the collet adaptor flange. On some of the Clausing machines with spindle nose protectors for the L-00 spindle, the threads wear enough (or maybe someone has removed some material from the front of the protector) so that you can't really get much force on the back of the collet adaptor before you run out of thread at the spindle nut. A shallow wedge angle is best, and if you are a careful worker on the bandsaw, that is a fast and easy way to make them. Mine are aluminum, but brass would certainly work.
Make sure you have an appropriate catch-place for the collet adaptor. Sometimes they pop out a foot (or two), depending on how tightly the tapers have been mated.
If I have something hollow on the lathe that I don't want dropped on the ways like this, I put an aluminum or brass rod in the tail stock chuck & slide it up into the hollow. I mostly use this if I'm cutting off rings, but it also works for removing a collet adapter.
For over 50 years I have worked in shops where we just took a bar of stock and gave to collet holder a solid tap. First take the collet tube out. Bar can be 5/8 dia or whatever. Catch the collet holder in your hand. Done. I've never seen any damage to the collet holder or the machine by anyone doing this. And have used steel, alum and brass bars to do this. Jim
No threads to worry about. The collet adaptor is a sleeve with a flange. The OD of the sleeve is a taper to match that of the spindle, Morse on some machines (MT 4-1/2 on my L-00 spindle Clausing), proprietary for some other machines.
The threads are in two places:
1) Male threads on the back of the collets themselves, with possible female threads as well for a depth stop to be fitted to the collet.
2) Female threads on the collet end of the drawtube, which you should pull out of the spindle before trying to drive. If you have a lever style closer, you'll probably need to pull a hinge pin (which is on my system a stripper bolt) to pull the closer clear. I then flip the lever over, and put the screw back through it to keep it out of the way behind the headstock. The screw has a threaded section, but I've never had a nut on it. Gravity holds it in place when in service, and no nut means that it is easier to pull the drawtube out.
As I mentioned before, the nose protector on the L-00 (and on threaded spindle noses is often used to extract the adaptor, though a recent communication with Royal supports the brass drive rod instead, especially with the aluminum spindle nose protector for the L-00.
Is there a chance that something could be made thin enough to take the place of a nose protector for your camlock (D-?) spindle? And if so, can the cams be rotate in such a way as to force it to separate from the nose, so it can extract the adaptor?
I've been thinking of a different approach for a while, but haven't had time to build it. The advantage would be that I wouldn't have to remove the draw tube to pop out the collet adapter. The idea is to make a "slap hammer" with a split brass "hook" to catch on the back end of the collet adapter. The rod through the "hooks" would have a thin section that would allow the hooks to close in enough to slide in through the adpater. The rod would then taper to a fat enough cross section to force the hooks out, just before the hammer part hits them. I'm not sure I'm describing this clearly. Let's try some ASCII art:
Why not make a pair of hooks pointing inwards to grip the flange instead? You've got a 1/8" gap under the flange of the adaptor, so that would work. That way, you aren't hooking on the surfaces which matter (though with brass hooks, I guess that it won't matter.
I thought about that, but I can't get the hammer behind them. This means that over time the hooks will probably deform more than the hooks I envision for the original design. It would work, and as you point out, they could be steel & you wouldn't risk damaging the taper in the adapter. My lathe (an Emco Maier Super 11) has a bit more space behind the adapter than the Clausing, so it would actually work much better on my lathe because I could put significant metal into the hooks. There's actually enough space to rig up some sort of camming arrangement to pop the adapter out without any banging. That would be easier on the bearings.
More food for thought while I try to find time to work on it.
O.K. If you want a serious project, turn a cylinder with the ID equal to the diameter of the collet adaptor behind the flange, then with a boring bar turn the ID after the thickness of the gap before the flange of a mounted collet adaptor to a little more than the OD of the flange. Drill and tap the center for a screw-in steel bar. Perhaps bevel or round the edge away from the headstock side. This makes a C-shaped hook to pull on the flange.
Then thread a steel rod to fit that center hole, and turn a smaller piece as a nut on the far end of the rod. Turn up a brass cylinder (probably knurled) which is bored to slide freely on the rod. You now have a side hammer all external to the spindle.
Then take it to a mill, and mill an opening on one side to allow it to slip over the collet adaptor's flange from the side. Once it is on, slide the hammer to pop out and control the collet adaptor's flight.
Agreed. (Hmm ... you could make something which would screw into the end of the drawtube and which would press on the back of the collet adaptor. You could use the leverage of the closer mechanism to pop out the adaptor -- but this would still mean removing and re-installing the drawtube and lever mechanism. (While I do leave the drawtube and lever in place sometimes while working in chucks, there are other times when I need the full diameter of the spindle bore. For example I have several lengths of hex 12L14 which is just the maximum size hex which will fit through the bore, making it a nice stock to feed through the spindle and work with chucks to minimize the waste stock. You don't need extra for holding while you're working, because it is just more stock in the chuck which will get its turn to be machined into a part.