Cost of concreting an area

Why don't you just pick up a slab at an auction? :-)

Not in illinois, you have to figure in the cost of permits, drawings and plans, enviromental reports, campain contrabutions, inspectors bribes and misc payoffs.

Best Regards Tom.

Proly left off a zero..... :)--

Mebbe 1/4" plate, unwelded, on top of asphalt would be a competitive, quickie solution. And then if you ever neede steel, it would be right in the front yard.... You could patch one area of asphalt, try one or two sheets in a heavily-used forklift area, see how it holds up Also, ito slipperiness, you could proly get diamond plate. I wonder if 1/8" diamond plate would hold up....

You'd have a nice shallow bowl in short oder - like working it with an english wheel. Quarter would take a bit longer - but even 1/4" mild steel under a solid tire forklift on asphalt will warp eventually. If the asphalt is dead flat it will stand up reasonably long. Flip it after every few uses, perhaps.

You might be fine with 6" thick concrete if it's constructed properly

- think about it like you're building a section of an Interstate Highway. They need to dig down deep, say 18 - 20" and put down geo-fabric and drain tiles and sumps to get rid of the water, it has to stay dry under there. Any water underneath will frost heave it.

Then you put down 10" to 12" of Road Base - crushed stone, gravel & sand blend, and have it compacted. And a 2" - 3" layer of Asphalt as an interstitial layer - it will allow the concrete to flex a bit.

Then you use the pre-fabbed heavy rebar mats for freeway lanes, it comes in standard sections (12' X 20'?) and drops into place like Lego. They come epoxy coated so it doesn't rust inside the concrete and make it all come apart from the inside.

And be sure to put the pre-fabbed dowel & sleeve sections between the slabs where you will place bender-board expansion strips or diamond-saw the expansion joints. It's a nifty trick - two sleeves for the two sides, and a captive floating dowel right at the join point. That way it can expand and contract horizontally but the sections can't heave vertically between each other.

Build it like that, and you'll never have to do it again, Ever.

But it would cost a bloody fortune - so figure on putting down a healthy layer of Road Base and drainage, compact it well, and a simple slab pour on top - that should go 20 years for your uses.

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How can I do it so that it does not cost abloody fortune?

If I had a bloody fortune, I would be retired.

i

I read somewhere that you can get the local concrete plant to dump excess concrete for free :)

MikeB

Yes, but that might be a problem for this project, mainly because you never know what you're going to get until it gets there - Pump Mix with pea gravel, Regular aggregate low strength, high strength, early high strength, air entrained or not, might even get a batch with colorant. Or how big a load. Or how long it's been mixing in the truck before the customer gave up and the truck started for your place.

This works better for simple ground cover slabs at equipment yards where appearance is secondary to just having a hard surface - and a few cracks are fine. You can keep a big patch of land cleared and ready to pour, and toss down the forms and some simple wire mesh panels to match the batch size. If the batch is already setting up in the truck you have to get it placed and worked FAST or it'll make a mound and freeze.

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Describe the mess the forklifts make. It sounds as if the asphalt is not on stable soil so if they sit in one place they cause dents. I think the cheap way is to inject soil stabilizers thru the asphalt. Got a similar problem here with the driveway put down over a clay soil. When it gets warm enough to dig, I am going to put in some sub surface drainage. Which ought to help. Then I am going to look into having someone inject stuff through the asphalt.

Before the driveway was put in, they should have mixed a bunch of lime in the soil.

Dan

How about the ultimate cheap method. Remove the pavement from the area you want to stiffen up. Break up the soil real good down as deep as you can go without destroying everything. Now take about half of the loose stuff out and put a sand/gravel mix in it's place. Buy a bunch of bags of portland cement and till it into the dirt/gravel mix real well, Now WATER the crap out of the area and then roll it down smooth. Water it some more and roll it some more. Then let it set for a couple weeks. Now pave over the top and you should have a nice solid lot. You would be doing the homeowners version of soil cement and if you add the correct amount of cement per SQ/FT it will handle just about anything you would ever put on it.

I did this for an area that was prone to washing out a few years ago. When the water level was very low it all got dug out and repaired, Then once it was in place I kept it wet and raked it so it was a bit rough. Then put a small amount of loose dirt on it and planted some fast growing grass. It hasn't moved at all and this area was washing away at about 3 feet a year. Plus it looks like dirt (until you kick it) so it doesn't look like a big concrete block stuck in the ground. For my application this was a BIG plus. For you it doesn't really matter but it would be a LOT cheaper than digging all of it out. You could then do just the smaller area with solid concrete and save money.

Steve, I think that what you did is a fine approach for certain applications, but, I think, for heavy solid tire forklifts I need regular solid concrete, with a proper road base and all.

I want it done, but at the same time I am budget conscious.

i

I can visually see asphalt heave undert he forklifts.

Near the door, asphalt is completely ruined.

Dan, I think that I put more stress on a surface than just cars, I do not think that I can avoid concreting some area, at least

On 2/26/2012 6:48 PM, Ignoramus5649 wrote: ...

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Sounds like the lot was paved for parking/light industrial loads.

It _might_ be cheaper to look into adding flotation to the forklifts than repaving large areas of a lot.

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Not a bad idea with Iggy's scrounging ability. A rough terrain type forklift with large pneumatic tires and much lower ground pressure might do it.

Let me rephrase my answer. Talk to some professional engineers in your area on how to do it. Do not completely rely on the opinions here. I would expect an engineer would ask for samples of the soil beneath the asphalt before he made any recommendations. Civil Engineers design roads, airport runways and building foundations.

Dan

They are all diesel powered, I could not use them inside due to stink.

i

Two forklifts, just hand off at the loading dock door. Two forklifts are cheaper than the concrete by a large margin.

Iggy, your $3000 +/- bid sounds on target and would be competitive here.

Make sure:

1. Make sure that the cut, remove, haul off demolition asphalt and dirt is included. You might offer to rift on site if you have any low spots. Make sure they include knocking it down and grading
2. Make sure there is sufficient compaction of subgrade - the true main ingredient for good concrete.
3. Make sure that they provide grade and drainage for new concrete.(seems you had some problems). Design for adding more concrete in the future.
4. Joint or cut so that no concrete dimension is more than 12'. Any contraction joints need to be 2" minimum.
5. Cure
6. Seal any construction or contraction joints
7. Keep traffic off for 7 days, more if possible
8. Seal once it is 30 days old

I would use 3500# air entrained.

Either concrete or asphalt will work fine if the job is done right. The most import thing is the sub base and drainage. Without proper drainage the water will collect under the pavement and push it up. When it melts it will settle back and in the process you will get cracking of the surface which will lead to failure of the whole system.

You will first have to see what drainage problems you might have and what soil type it is. Some soils drain pretty well, others like clay will give you no end to drainage problems. I would imagine in Chicago you should go down about three feet and put in about a foot of oversize stone on the bottom with perforated pipe to drain the water if you have a place to drain it to. If you have decent soil drainage, you can get away without the perforated pipe. On top of the oversize you would put a layer of 2B stone (pa dot designation

) then pour your concrete on top of that. 8 inches should hold the weight you put on it if the base is done right. You could also pave the area. You would need at least 4 inches of coarse blacktop with a finish layer of 2 inches of finer material. You could add a fiber mesh in the blacktop that would tie it together better but I would not bother with that. Look at the commercial paving jobs around your area. Get a couple of estimates as to what the local professional contractors recommend.

Another way to finish it is to put in a layer of sand and put the high strength pavers in by hand. If they get moved by frost you can just reset them. You need the ones made from high strength concrete of at least 5000 psi material.

I have a big paving job coming up this spring on the whole parking area and delivery entrance. I am thinking of using the pavers since the water table here is almost at the surface. I have an artisean well in the basement and for most of this year my well was overflowing. Tomorrow they promised to put the new insulated rollup steel door in place, 14x16 ft. They were supposed to have it in last month. Right now I have two 8'x

20' x 1 inch steel plates on the ground for the forklifts and truck deliveries. I also have a 63,000 lb machine tarped outside that is coming in after I get the new door on the building. The old door which was 14 feet wide and not wide enough to get the vbm inside. I have two other vtls coming in at the end of this coming week. It's going to be one busy week moving machinery.

John