Cost of concreting an area

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 18:08:12 -0600, Ignoramus1113


Plywood's not cheap.
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 18:08:12 -0600, Ignoramus1113

Were it my pour, I'd use a day laborer to dig out the area for me, frame it with 2x12s, and wire in some reinforcement mesh. I'd have the laborer try to keep the bottom flat, but if he overdug an area, I wouldn't have it filled in with loose dirt. I'd leave it to be filled with crete. Concrete likes a very firm base, which keeps it from settling.
Then I'd hire a concrete finisher the day I had the concrete truck do the pour. He'd make sure it was flattened and smoothed, then once it set up a bit, he'd very lightly broom it for better traction.
After it's cured for a week, I'd come back and fit the asphalt to the concrete for a smooth transition.
The good thing about concrete is that only the first yard costs a lot. The rest comes along for the ride. Around here, it's $140 for the first yard but only $500 or so for a ten yard load of it.
If you use your own dump truck and laborer, it shouldn't cost you over $1,000 all together. Just do it!
-- Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt
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Not in illinois, you have to figure in the cost of permits, drawings and plans, enviromental reports, campain contrabutions, inspectors bribes and misc payoffs.
Best Regards Tom.
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wrote:

You might went to search on the internet for " Soil Stabilization ". And then see if there is anyone in the Chicago area that does it. I am not sure what kind of mess the fork lifts are making. So there some possibility that soil stabilizers can be injected through the asphalt and avoid having to use any concrete. Anyway some thing to check on. I vaguely remember that they used soil stabilization when they built BART in Ca. On the other hand they did not use it when they built the VMPB at Kings Bay.
Dan
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wrote:

Why don't you just pick up a slab at an auction? :-)
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 10:47:58 -0600, Ignoramus1113

You might be fine with 6" thick concrete if it's constructed properly - think about it like you're building a section of an Interstate Highway. They need to dig down deep, say 18 - 20" and put down geo-fabric and drain tiles and sumps to get rid of the water, it has to stay dry under there. Any water underneath will frost heave it.
Then you put down 10" to 12" of Road Base - crushed stone, gravel & sand blend, and have it compacted. And a 2" - 3" layer of Asphalt as an interstitial layer - it will allow the concrete to flex a bit.
Then you use the pre-fabbed heavy rebar mats for freeway lanes, it comes in standard sections (12' X 20'?) and drops into place like Lego. They come epoxy coated so it doesn't rust inside the concrete and make it all come apart from the inside.
And be sure to put the pre-fabbed dowel & sleeve sections between the slabs where you will place bender-board expansion strips or diamond-saw the expansion joints. It's a nifty trick - two sleeves for the two sides, and a captive floating dowel right at the join point. That way it can expand and contract horizontally but the sections can't heave vertically between each other.
Build it like that, and you'll never have to do it again, Ever.
But it would cost a bloody fortune - so figure on putting down a healthy layer of Road Base and drainage, compact it well, and a simple slab pour on top - that should go 20 years for your uses.
--<< Bruce >>--
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On 2012-02-26, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)

How can I do it so that it does not cost abloody fortune?
If I had a bloody fortune, I would be retired.
i
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wrote:

Describe the mess the forklifts make. It sounds as if the asphalt is not on stable soil so if they sit in one place they cause dents. I think the cheap way is to inject soil stabilizers thru the asphalt. Got a similar problem here with the driveway put down over a clay soil. When it gets warm enough to dig, I am going to put in some sub surface drainage. Which ought to help. Then I am going to look into having someone inject stuff through the asphalt.
http://www.landstabilizers.com/gpage1.html
Before the driveway was put in, they should have mixed a bunch of lime in the soil.
http://www.lime.org/uses_of_lime/construction/soil.asp
Dan
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I can visually see asphalt heave undert he forklifts.
Near the door, asphalt is completely ruined.

Dan, I think that I put more stress on a surface than just cars, I do not think that I can avoid concreting some area, at least
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On 2/26/2012 6:48 PM, Ignoramus5649 wrote: ...

...
Sounds like the lot was paved for parking/light industrial loads.
It _might_ be cheaper to look into adding flotation to the forklifts than repaving large areas of a lot.
--
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dpb wrote:

Not a bad idea with Iggy's scrounging ability. A rough terrain type forklift with large pneumatic tires and much lower ground pressure might do it.
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They are all diesel powered, I could not use them inside due to stink.
i
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Ignoramus5649 wrote:

Two forklifts, just hand off at the loading dock door. Two forklifts are cheaper than the concrete by a large margin.
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wrote:

Let me rephrase my answer. Talk to some professional engineers in your area on how to do it. Do not completely rely on the opinions here. I would expect an engineer would ask for samples of the soil beneath the asphalt before he made any recommendations. Civil Engineers design roads, airport runways and building foundations.
Dan
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:48:25 -0600, Ignoramus5649

That really sounds like the base beneth the asphalt is weak. The asphalt may not be up to the weight of the forklift, but the base sounds like it's giving way too.
RWL
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He's being goofy...
--asphalt is classified as a flexible paving material and it will displace under sufficiently heavy loading even if it's been laid over a solid concrete base.
Or at least that's what they taught in tech school back in the late 70's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:62_CES.jpg
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PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

Very flexible. Near here in hot sunny TX there is a highway overpass that has a left turn lane on a slight downhill slope to a stoplight. When they originally built it that area was asphalt. In the warm weather every car coming to a stop at the light was pushing a small wave of asphalt ahead of it. They eventually tore it up and redid it in concrete.
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On 2/27/2012 1:37 AM, PrecisionmachinisT wrote: ...

...
And, if iggy is tearing it up now, as another says, just wait 'til it warms up this summer--even Chi-town on sunny July day, black asphalt-->gooey.
--
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Ignoramus1113 wrote:

How about the ultimate cheap method. Remove the pavement from the area you want to stiffen up. Break up the soil real good down as deep as you can go without destroying everything. Now take about half of the loose stuff out and put a sand/gravel mix in it's place. Buy a bunch of bags of portland cement and till it into the dirt/gravel mix real well, Now WATER the crap out of the area and then roll it down smooth. Water it some more and roll it some more. Then let it set for a couple weeks. Now pave over the top and you should have a nice solid lot. You would be doing the homeowners version of soil cement and if you add the correct amount of cement per SQ/FT it will handle just about anything you would ever put on it.
I did this for an area that was prone to washing out a few years ago. When the water level was very low it all got dug out and repaired, Then once it was in place I kept it wet and raked it so it was a bit rough. Then put a small amount of loose dirt on it and planted some fast growing grass. It hasn't moved at all and this area was washing away at about 3 feet a year. Plus it looks like dirt (until you kick it) so it doesn't look like a big concrete block stuck in the ground. For my application this was a BIG plus. For you it doesn't really matter but it would be a LOT cheaper than digging all of it out. You could then do just the smaller area with solid concrete and save money.
--
Steve W.

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Steve, I think that what you did is a fine approach for certain applications, but, I think, for heavy solid tire forklifts I need regular solid concrete, with a proper road base and all.
I want it done, but at the same time I am budget conscious.
i
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