Define "vernier"

See this Craig's list ad:
http://comoxvalley.en.craigslist.ca/tls/3001656061.html
Leaving aside the arrogance of his price policy I am fascinated by the
fact that a machinist (self-defined) who can afford such expensive tools does not know what a vernier is.
The only "vernier" I see is on the micrometer scale.
Has it become acceptable to refer to calipers as "vernier" whether they use the vernier scale or not? Like Pilsner beer etc.?
Michael Koblic, Campbell River, BC
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"Vernier" is the name of the Frenchman who invented the scale around 1860.
"Caliper" is ambiguous, so I think Vernier is somewhat the generic term by default. Many metalworking terms are the result of long custom and are imprecise, even "iron". I wasn't sure what an "engine lathe" was until reading Joshua Rose's definition of it as a lathe with self-acting power feed, versus one with an X-Y slide rest that clamps to the bed as on a watchmakers' lathe.
jsw
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On Sun, 13 May 2012 22:38:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I'd think that "dial caliper" or "digital caliper" would be more generic than "Vernier caliper". If I saw "Vernier caliper" I would think "I'm too lazy for one of those -- and besides, I always read them wrong". "dial caliper" and "digital caliper", OTOH, each mean something specific to me.
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wrote:

Over the years, "vernier" has become short-term slang for "vernier caliper." It's not a good habit for the reasons posted by others.
--
Ed Huntress

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Yeah... well, I _have_ a couple of verier calipers, and generally much prefer a dial version. It's not that I can't measure with a vernier scale, but as someone already said, "I'm too lazy...".
LLoyd
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On Mon, 14 May 2012 07:19:49 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

I haven't owned a dial caliper for many years, but it's the quickest to read, IMO. I acquired some digitals when I wrote and did photography for Mitutoyo. They'd give me some tools to photograph, and when I tried to return them, they'd say, "Oh, no, we've already written them off as advertising expense. Keep them." The ceramic gage blocks are nice. d8-)))
I do use my Swiss vernier caliper. I rely on its accuracy, but it would be too slow to handle if I were doing commercial work.
However, like a lot of old-time hobbyists, I don't use any measuring calipers very much. I use spring calipers a lot, and micrometers when I need that kind of accuracy.
--
Ed Huntress

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    [ ... ]

    The place where digital calipers really win is in measuring the center-to-center distance of two holes of the same diameter. Measure the ID of one hole with the horns, zero it in that position, and then shift to one horn in each of the two holes, pressing against the opposite sides. Now you have a direct reading of the center distance between the two holes. It even automatically compensates for the chord error from the fact that the horns don't have fully sharp edges.
    Another benefit, at least compared to most dial calipers, is the ability to measure in either inch or metric units at will, and to convert back and forth between them. Yes, there are dial calipers with two hands and concentric scales which read in both systems, but getting both to zero at precisely the same point is tricky. (Maybe someone makes really good ones which have no problems there, but the ones which I have seen leave something to be desired there.
FWIW -- what I have:
    1    4" dial caliper -- Helios (new -- decades ago)     1    6" dial caliper -- Phase II (new)     1    150mm dial caliper -- Starrett (new)     1    6"/150mm vernier caliper -- I forget the brand. (new)     1    24"/600mm vernier caliper -- Scherr-Tumico (used, hamfest)     1    12"/300mm digital caliper -- Mitutoyo. (new, hamfest)     3    6"/150mm digital calipers -- Mitutoyo, Starrett and         nameless import all bought used except for the nameless         import -- all working using induction/capacitive scales.     2    Browne & Sharpe (likely really Tessa) 6"/150mm digital         calipers with glass scales. Both are semi-retired for         the moment -- until I make new battery compartments for         them to run from a pair of CR2032 3V cells instead of         four PX-13 mercury cells -- now made of unobtanium. I've         verified that they work fine at the higher voltage, so         it is just a matter of making the replacement battery         compartment. One of these was from a hamfest back when         the batteries were still available, and the other from         a tool flea market much later.
    With a resolution of 0.0005", the digital calipers are close enough once you develop the proper feel to avoid cocking the moving jaw. And "feel" is a matter of importance in micrometers, too -- especially those from before the friction thimbles or the ratchet spinner. Too many micrometers to list, but they go up to 12" at the top end. And one 25mm one from Russia, which is about 50% more massive than any US made 0-1" micrometers. :-)
    Yes -- I use the micrometers when precision is really important, but for many things the digital calipers are quite all that I need.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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wrote:
[...]

Good one! Noted and filed away. Thanks.
Michael Koblic, Campbell River, BC
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On Mon, 14 May 2012 20:21:34 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I just learned that one last week from my machinist buddy who's helping me with the CNC router build. It works a treat! Just remember to use the outside dims, not the inside, or you'll be off by exactly one hole diameter. DAMHIKT.
-- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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On 5/14/2012 8:19 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

The trick is to still be able to see those bitty lines without a magnifier. But, I trust a vernier as much as a good digital. Dials on the other hand....
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There might have been a reason why he "quit machining seven years ago".
i

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    I think that if you have a machinist who dates back to the days when calipers were either spring and firm joint or true vernier calipers, and who does not know that "vernier" defines the type of reading system, not the shape of the instrument (even though he may know how to read them), when the dial calipers, and then the digital ones came out, he called them by the same name he used for other tools of the same basic shape.
    But it is certainly not acceptable to *me*, whether it is to him or not.
    Then -- there are those who call the calipers of all reading styles "very nears", which may be a more accurate term when comparing them to micrometers. :-)
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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DoN. Nichols wrote:

I have a set of plastic calipers (several, actually, including one in the car) which use a vernier scale:
http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/51151632/4_Plastic_Caliper.jpg
They aren't very accurate, but it is fun to use.
I remember when I was in chemistry class years ago we had a barometer with a vernier scale, and we were taught how to read the scale and record the barometric pressure before we would do our lab coursework.
Jon
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    Interesting that it offers 0.05mm on the metric side, but fractional (1/128th") on the inches side -- like the old machinists used. (I've seen them in reprints of old catalogs, but all that I have seen and/or used were decimal inch and similar metric. No provisions for zeroing it, however.
    I've personally thought it a step backwards when digital calipers started offering fractional readings as well as decimal ones.

    Interesting. How much chemistry work is atmospheric pressure dependent? I could picture some things being pressure sensitive, but most chem class stuff would not be.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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If you mean things like titration, no. But chemical reactions increase in rate with temperature and pressure.
Most industrial chemistry is highly dependent upon both.
Lloyd
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Boiling points, as in distillation.
jsw
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On 05/14/2012 06:13 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

That for sure; he was a stickler for procedure, and had us note it during every lab session. I remember there were a few labs in thermo when it was needed for the calculations, as it affected the boiling points, but I'd have to dig out my lab notes for more examples.
Jon
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DoN. Nichols wrote:

My I remind you that you still dial a telephone number.
John
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john wrote:

Really? DTMF has been around for over four decades, and you press or punch the number.
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Remember the Autovon 'Flash Override' button? "Hey Mr President, Brezhnev just drove a tank through the fence and wants to talk to you." Don't ever touch that button otherwise.
The official terms are tone(DTMF) and pulse(rotary) dialing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-tone_multi-frequency "The version of DTMF that is used in push-button telephones for tone dialing is known as Touch-Tone."
I still have a Princess phone with a rotary dial hooked up, and somewhere an old Stromberg-Carlson Model 500 equivalent.
jsw
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