I certainly haven't flown from every airport in the country but everyone I have flown from sent the bags, coats, etc. through the X ray and after the pax went through the metal detector, they selected a bag to test for explosives or hand search.
There seems to be some confusion on this. Here's what I know about what is actually going on. In the past few years, 911 calls from cell phones have caused problems for those responding to said calls. Why? 911 uses caller ID name/address information to identify the location. Your cell phone "location" typically shows up as the location of the cell phone store where you got the phone.
So, location tracking of cell phones has been proposed so that the 911 operator sends the responders to the right location. There are two main ways to do this: triangulation via cell towers and GPS. Triangulation can be implemented right away, as it doesn't depend on the cell phone having GPS. Newer cell phones *may* have a GPS receiver built in (not sure on this, or what percentage actually have it).
As other commentators on this issue have noted elsewhere, a robust 911 system will use both triangulation and GPS, because there are circumstances when one or the other will fail.
I'll bite - if only because this exactly illustrates the point I'm trying to make. The White House is, I'm guessing here, no more than a mile or two from general urban areas, right? Why would you need a missile with a 200 mile range? As other suggested, unguided mortars or rockets would work just as well, even an old brass cannon could probably make that range, and deliver just as much payload. Hell, even that bowling ball cannon I read about a few posts back could probably score a hit. Not that bowling balls falling from the sky are particularly terrifying...
If I were an individual bent on proving a point, without caring if I died in the process, I'd steal a learjet / helicopter / anything else that could fly, pack it with stuff that goes boom, and head in. Or, I'd steal a gasoline truck, pack it with explosives within the gas, and make the biggest honking molotov ever made; after that, rig up a dead-mans trigger and start driving in - the closer you get the better. Or, I'd just take the gas truck, dump a line into the sewer, let it spill, and walk away; sooner or later, something's going to spark it off and tear up the roads all around the place. Maybe at the same time, I blow up another tanker full of anything toxic, somewhere upwind, and let it drift in. Top it off by giving the news about 20 minutes to report the mayhem, then blow the powerlines leaving everyone sitting in the dark wondering what the hell to do... now that's terror.
And that's my 60 second list. What I'm trying to say here is that terrorising people is easy, or at least easier than building a cruise missile. This is why I don't buy the "wake-up call" argument. If the guy that built the bowling ball cannon made a bunch of noise about how easy it was for someone to make, and how it could be used to launch explosives by terrorists, but his isn't a weapon because it doesn't pack explosives, even though it could, and everyone should be vigilant that their neighbours aren't building these things... Well, generally, people would expect the guy to get squashed. But, this guy just did his thing, amused himself by lobbing balls at the nearby hills, mentioned it to a few people that can appreciate the design, and we go "Cool..." No one's really going to care, even if he is breaking a few laws, at least until he scares the hell out of some hiker.
Like I said before, I admire your technical skill but, in my opinion, you need to work on your reasons.
David...
While that might work, the advantage the DIY cruise missile has over this approach is you'd have a better chance of living to fight another day with the cruise missile than you would with a truck load of mortars or short range unguided rockets. That's because you could launch it well away from the target area in a nice quiet spot where you could set it up and launch it without attracting too much unwanted attention, and be long gone before it reaches the target. It may be fine to be a martyr, but it is better to be a successful terrorist who lives to terrorize another day.
The SS has men on the rooftops around the White House with Stinger missiles for just such an attempt. Stingers would be effective against the DIY cruise missile too, of course. Since 911, they also have helicopter gunships and jet interceptors to deal with any aircraft entering the no fly zone over the capital.
If you came in nap of the earth, and hammers to hell, you might make it through anyway. A good cruise missile like our own military has can do that. It would be tougher with a DIY cruise missile, and near suicidal in a hand flown civilian aircraft, though it was done once, before 911, when security wasn't as trigger happy.
You wouldn't get very close. They've blocked off Pennsylvania Avenue with concrete barriers to stop just such an attack.
The SS has sealed all the access covers to sewers, power tunnels, etc in the areas around the White House and the Capital. You could still get gas into a storm drain, though. Rough on the streets if those blew, but it wouldn't get you close to damaging the White House. (AFAIK, the sewers and the storm drains are separate in DC.)
That would be pesky, but we routinely have accidents with semi-trailer loads of toxics, even multiple rail cars. People have become more or less used to that sort of thing.
Now that touch would add terror. BTW, that's why terrorists often phone in a warning before a bomb it detonated.
Gary
Are you talking about your carry on bags? I thought you were referring to the bags going to the baggage compartment. The only random search of carry on items I've seen is at the gate when they pull some people to do a compete search on them. I only fly once or twice a year so maybe it's different at different airports. Though that wouldn't make any sense to me but you know how our government is. Karl
If one were to set 80 mortar tubes at the same angle and azimuth, mount them in the back of a soft top semi trailer, load them identically, then park the truck at a predetermined spot, it could be remotely ripple fired even by a cell phone call. If one simply dropped the "landing gear", the movement of the trailer would be diminished greatly and as each back of tubes fired, dispersion would be limited but would make a hell of a mess at the target, particularly if you used a mix of warheads...HE, WP, the usual.
The concept used in a civilian setting makes my various orifices slam shut in a very high pucker factor. Brrrrrrrrrr
Gunner
The methodology of the left has always been:
Last time I flew, I purposely used one of my range bags. Chuckle.. Several years worth of gunpowder residue embedded in the sides of the bag. The sniffer was being used on a bag about 5 foot from mine and triggered. It was great watching them silently panic as they hunted for the source, then dump the bag and find only socks and shirts
They suggested I not use that bag again for air travel. They never did figure out what the cause was.
Gunner
The methodology of the left has always been:
You might not have gotten it back. My dad's lost a couple of suitcases that he carries scientific equipment in, they wind up 'lost' at the destination.
I have a strong suspicion that the x-rays look troublesome, so the bags get a quick trip to the ordinance disposal place at rodmans neck. They blow them up and report them lost.
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
I have the same issue every time I fly to a trade show with my work in my carry on roll away suitcase. The jewelry isn't the problem, my Judaica (Jewish cerremonial art) always is. Several of the items are made from stainless steel tubing, and titanium machined rod, so on the x-ray machines they look like the perfect pipe bombs.
The first time that became apparent was in November 2001, when SFO was humming with National Guard people. The moment my roll away went onto the x-ray machine, the scanners reacted as if they had caught a "live one". They got very jittery and nervous. The bag was taken off the belt, and as always I requested a private check for my own security. I am usually not to thrilled to have the contents of my carry on luggage spilled onto a table for all passengers to see.
Anyway, a National Guardsman accompanied me to the area where the bag would be examined. I was not allowed to roll it, the screener had to do that. The Guardsman made a point of having me walk in front of him, not beside him. As we walked, I turned around and tried to diffuse the situation by saying something like, "Don't worry, I'm Jewish. I'm cool." I forget what I said exactly.
I will never forget what he said to me. "Just don't agitate me." He did not smile.
Now, every time I fly with my stuff I have to open everything up. And of course I have to take my shoes off. Does that increase my sense of security about flying. Not one little bit. It is still a scam.
If you want to know what good airport security looks like, fly out of Schiphol Airport (Amsterdam) or Lod Airport (Tel Aviv). Very different story.
Abrasha
Err, no.
Police microlights, perhaps, not UAVs with pulsejets. They are simply too loud and not reliable enough. To get them safe enough to fly over residential areas, even neglecting noise is really hard.
Back in an earlier life I was a road manager for a well known rock group. I kept a pair of hand cuffs in my briefcase for when I was carrying a large amount of cash after a gig. I still carry them and when they show up on the xray the security people just sort of nod at me with a knowing smile.
You have to be even stupider not to be totally open with such a project and therefore run the risk of being considered a terrorist.
And why is it stupid to simply make available information, much of which the government actually makes available from its own websites, available on the Net.
Check out some of the material available through this page:
I also have URLs that contain very useful details on the V1's flight control, fuel, airframe, engine and other systems -- certainly enough to give any would-be terorrist a very nice head-start on such a project.
If this kind of stuff is already freely avaialble -- hell you can buy the control system off the shelf at places like
-- you can contact me via
When you go building weapons technology in your garage shop you have to be pretty stupid to offer the information on a website to anyone with a credit card.
HAS ordered the Cell phone companies to include GPS in the phones, but, has given them until 2005 to comply. here is a link to an article or two about this:
Because the Governments not going to bust itself.
Because putting information out there makes the author a target.
Mine does. AFAIK, after some time soon (like thefirst of the year) all phones sold in the US are required to have this. HOWEVER you as the user do not have access to the data, at least in my phone. It is used to identify your location for 911 calls.
jk
A limited range GPS jammer, for instance a 1 foot range, that you could fasten onto your cellphone would be easy to develop. Or you could carry your cell phone under a tinfoil hat?
You can count on the cellphone industry stalling it until they are confident they can make money off it, so it may take awhile. Then stand by for more ads on your cellphone.
Dick
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:57:24 +1300, Bruce Simpson wrote something ......and in reply I say!:
Bruce
I believe you started this project with the idea of showing how ridiculously simple it would be.
I think it's sad that the NZ Govt, wjho _appear_ to have takern a stance against the US's walking all over everything, have collapsed under pressure.
Maybe they were caught in their own ingenuousness.And they are politicos.
Shit! Point out the problems with how easy it all is!
Anyone heard of City Hall?
.......or to wake up next day....
From what I have seen you're a mad bastard (and from the OZ Irish penal perspective that is NOT bad! ), but beaurocracy sucks.
umm...NZ is a place that many thinkers (Arthur C Clarke, Robert Heinlein) have admired for its humanity and ...sensibleness (especially since 1958, after I left at the age of 4 )!
Any chance of lobbying / approaching /enlisting the Govt for _support_ in your stance against the comnplexity of terrorism and the uselessness of trying to stop any _real_ attempt? Greens? Independents? Mainstream Govt?
Mind you, I live in Oz, where the new "Leader" of the "Opposition", who, while not the leader, decried Bush as a dangerous, incompetent maniac, and the Oz Prime Minion as an "arse licking toady" now suddenly gives a "non-retraction", self-justifying speech _in front of a US flag_!
Like I said.......politicos.
**************************************************** sorry remove ns from my header address to reply via emailI was frightened by the idea of a conspricacy that was causing it all. But then I was terrified that maybe there was no plan, really. Is this unpleasant mess all a mistake?
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:04:30 -0000, "PR" wrote something ......and in reply I say!:
There seem to be many argumnents hare that a CM is not worthwhile.
(1) "not worthwhile" ways have been used before because everyone ignored them
(2) It illustrates the problem. CMs or other means. It can be done. It cannot be stopped.
I do not believe the "individualist" (kind definition) view (and believe me I am an individualist) that terrorism has provided an excuse for some sort of Govt plot to invade our every orifice for no reason.
I do believe that the Govt of every participating nation has grabbed an excuse to make a lot of populartist noise to cover up their other fuckups.
Zealand government forced him to shut down his project
**************************************************** sorry remove ns from my header address to reply via emailI was frightened by the idea of a conspricacy that was causing it all. But then I was terrified that maybe there was no plan, really. Is this unpleasant mess all a mistake?
I was getting SPAM messages on my cell phone. &*$&^#&^#&* things would arrive at noon and midnight. The ones at midnight would start the phone beeping one beep every few minutes. Then I'd have to get up, put on glasses, turn on lights, and try to see well enough to push the buttons to delete the damn thing.
I called the phone company last week and asked them to turn off text messaging on my phone. I had to ask the lady three times, and explain it to her twice, but she finally agreed. Haven't had any messages since, so she must have done it.
I wouldn't mind having a GPS in my phone if I could use it and it didn't make the phone any bigger. But I suspect it would just give it more ways to fail and suck up battery power, and it wouldn't be as good as the dedicated GPS units.
Fitch
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