garage door lubricant



Really? I didn't know that! <not>
And why would one lubricate the rollers in a garage door track? Because they do not roll precisely-true, and rub on the sides. And they're noisy, metal on sheet metal, and all that; lubrication also quiets them.
Just to be clear, Ed; I knew all about that... its being sort of "mechanics 101". The joke about BLO and graphite was a joke, so "off- the-wall" that ANYBODY would have 'gotten it'. And so many didn't... <sigh>
Lloyd
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On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:24:00 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

We seem to have a failure to communicate. <g> Let's see why that is:
Lloyd asks:
"And to the guy who asked why anyone would lubricate a ROLLING member...I don't know... why do they lubricate roller bearings? (duh!)"
To which Ed replies:
"To reduce friction against the cages and against each other, in cageless sets."
And Lloyd rejoins:
"Really? I didn't know that! <not>"
Lloyd, you asked a reasonable question, got an accurate and reasonable answer, and now you seem to be perplexed about it. Carrying on:
Lloyd says:
"And why would one lubricate the rollers in a garage door track? Because they do not roll precisely-true, and rub on the sides. And they're noisy, metal on sheet metal, and all that; lubrication also quiets them."
Which is generally true, but which HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUESTION YOU ASKED!
You asked why roller bearings are lubricated. And you expect an answer to why one would lubricate a roller wheel on a sheet-metal track. Different questions, and they get different answers. My solution, BTW, is to shoot some oil into the bearings and don't wipe it up when some oil drools out. It works great. No fuss, no muss. <g>
Now, about your linseed-and-graphite soup: You'd just given us a story about "real" boiled linseed oil, which was sort of half cracker-barrel technology and half old-wives's tale (more about this later), and now you sound like you're serious about recommending this glop. Maybe you were serious. What you said is partly true: linseed is used to protect against rust (more about this later, too) and graphite is sometimes mixed with binders for lubricating purposes. You seem to think that some linseed doesn't get really hard, so maybe you thought that was all a good idea. I didn't want to get into a big discussion about it (an idea that now has become a complete loss <g>), so I let it slip away after your sardonic remarks.
================================== A few facts about linseed oil, boiled and otherwise: It boils at around 300 deg. F. It smokes -- like crazy -- at around 225 deg. F. When they boiled it in ancient times, it was done with a metal-compound catalyst, which they called "metal salts," which was, in earlier times, litharge. That's lead oxide. It wasn't until they STOPPED boiling it, centuries later, that they found they could use other metal salts to promote hardening without actually boiling the oil. Today, it's often a cobalt compound. Sometimes it's a mixture of a zinc compound and something else.
So I have no idea what you mean by "real" boiled linseed. They haven't done that for well over a century. Where the idea came from MAY be from the way they make "stand oil." For that, you heat linseed in a sealed container to around 600 deg. F, for hours. The result is called stand oil. It's used a lot in artist's oil paints, and small amounts of it are sometimes mixed into the commercial product that we call "boiled" linseed oil today. It's as thick as honey and it's partly polymerized. It promotes polymerization of raw linseed. Don't do this at home; a leak could cause an explosion.
So far, you've got some homebrew product that you're happy with, and that's fine. But you got the tacky part all twisted up. Raw linseed takes a very long time to harden. I sealed a pair of custom-made ash oars, which I still have, with raw linseed the year we moved into our house: 1978. By 1981 or so, they were nice and hard and dry. <g> They took extra time because I didn't know at that time that you're supposed to mix the first coat 50/50 with real turpentine. Now I know. That's how I've done my gunstocks, only with boiled linseed rather than raw linseed. The first coat takes weeks to dry. Subsequent coats, hand-rubbed with the heel of my hand, take around a week or less. My Model 1885 Browning falling-block, before I sold it, had over 20 hand-rubbed coats on it. It was absolutely beautiful. My antique woodworking planes were treated the same way.
That was "commercial" boiled linseed. That's what "boiled" linseed is today. It's refined raw linseed that contains metal compounds (collectively known as "Japan driers") that catalyze the oil and promote polymerization, which basically occurs from an oxidation reaction. As I said, it may also contain some stand oil, some turpentine (the artists' product, which is thicker than the turps we used in house paint years ago), and sometimes other solvents.
Now, here's why I didn't get into this with you: You were partly right. It can protect against rust, but it doesn't do very well in open air. It's hydrophobic, but it's also porous. It's kind of a mixed bag in terms of rust protection. For around 90 years, it's been used to coat the inside of steel tubes used in aircraft tube frames as a rust protectant. But here's the kicker: Its protection is based partly, or maybe mostly, on "eating up" available oxygen in those (hopefully) sealed tubes, as it oxidizes and polymerizes. In other words, it starves the rust. And, if the tube is well sealed, it never gets really hard.
So, not being a mind reader, and not knowing where you got your ideas about "boiled" linseed oil, I let it slide. You do tend to be jumpy from time to time, as we both know. d8-) I don't doubt your experience with the oil but man, following you around the block can be a workout.
--
Ed Huntress







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You obviously know nothing but "lore" about BLO.
It is not "boiled", it is slow-cooked at steam temperatures to cause the oils/fats to separate from the resins. It is then carefully decanted first, then filtered through material preferential to fats, until only the resinous parts remain.
You read. I do. I've made authentic BLO furniture finishes since the early 1960s by the method above. They don't "harden in a month". They 'cure' in a week.
Lloyd
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On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 15:39:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

The jargon in that business is so fouled up that you might mean anything. Artists make at least a dozen varieties, several of them "boiled," and some of them "heat-bodied," some "stand oil," some "sun-thickened," and so on. They're old terms that refer to many different heat treatments that have been used through the centuries. There is no single "lore."

Very nice. Carry on, Lloyd.
--
Ed Huntress

>Lloyd
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What I've found to work best on cast iron pans is peanut oil. Smear pan all over, heat up until it starts smoking, set aside. The oil turns to varnish right away. Lard also works, but takes longer to cure. Likewise tallow.
Joe Gwinn
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wrote:

Peanut oil is the one often recommended by chefs and cookware manufacturers, supposedly because it has a high smoking temperature and seals the cast-iron pores better than other oils.
I used it 40 years ago, but I don't like the smell and switched to other oils. I never noticed a difference in how my pans behave but there are so many other factors involved that it's hard to tell.
I'll bet that 20W-40 would work really well. 'Maybe even better if you load it with graphite powder. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress

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I've read that too, though I was using peanut oil long before, probably because I observed that it seemed to turn to varnish pretty quickly.
Turning this around, I've also discovered that the quickest way to remove burned-on crud in the bottom of a pan is methylene-chloride based paint stripper - the cured food oil is in fact varnish.

Any unsaturated edible oil will do, though some cure better than others, and the taste of the oil varies as well.
As for peanut oil, once the oil on the pan has cured, one cannot taste the oil. Especially after frying some meat.
I have not tried it, but I bet corn oil would work. Likewise safflower oil.

I bet the viscosity modifiers are tasty.
Joe Gwinn
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wrote:

Huh. I'll have to try that. I use a 3/4" wood chisel and a 4" angle-head grinder. d8-)

I went to olive oil first, and then settled on canola oil.

It tastes like...quinoa panzanella a la Pennzoil.

--
Ed Huntress

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For the burned-on crud on the *outside* of my cast iron ware, I apply a coarse [1] 3M Clean'n'Strip(tm) wheel or the Walther equialent every couple of years. These flexible mesh wheels cut well enough to remove *any* organic crud (or even mill scale from new stock) without gouging the base metal. I have a circa 1925 B&D end grinder that's just right for the application.
[1] 3M makes them in 3 grades. But it's so much bother to get stuff from the 3M industrial catalogue that I usually go for Walther from a local dealer.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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Does the smell of peanut oil always seem off to you too? I don't mind peanuts or peanut butter, but the smell of peanut oil or even slightly old peanut butter bugs me. Nobody else I've come across yet even know what I'm talking about when I bring this up.
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On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 17:27:05 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

I think it's because I live near several Chinese restaurants, and the smell reminds me of gastric distress. <g>
Seriously, I just don't like the smell of hot peanut oil. Like you, I'm fine with the smell of peanuts and peanut butter.
--
Ed Huntress

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On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 17:27:05 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

As the oil ages it starts to oxidize and become rancid. You are probably very sensitive to peanut oilthat is starting to turn rancid. I have a problem with raw fish that has sat around too long. My wife, who has a much better sense of smell, isn't put off by some fish that smells really bad to me. So I think that I am just way more sensitive to that one smell than she is. Eric
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I chipped and scraped out my grandmother's baked-on crust and cook breakfast in a few drops of olive oil, then lightly wash the frypan with Dawn and a plastic brush. The remaining black coating is thin but very stable and the iron doesn't rust while drip-drying. Omelettes come loose easily in it without splitting.
I don't run the wood stove hot enough to make the oil smoke.
-jsw
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On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 12:37:31 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

I started using canola oil on my cast iron decades ago. Boil out the pan, reboil and wipe with un-soaped cloth. Heat it on the stove until very hot, pour in some canola oil, swipe around, and let sit, cooling for 5 minutes, then wipe down with paper towel to remove excess oil. Once the pan is cool, it's seasoned and ready. I use 3:1 virgin coconut oil to butter as my "oil" for cooking. Neither leaves it sticky.

Ayieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Heathen monster! Thou Shalt -Not- Soap the Cast Iron Pan, EVER!

Yeah, properly seasoned cast iron is as good or better than PTFE.

Omelettes must take hours, then. Condolences.
--
Worrying does not take away tomorrow's troubles,
it takes away today's peace. --Lifehack
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wrote:

I've been waiting for that mailbomb to explode. What took so long?
http://www.thekitchn.com/5-myths-of-cast-iron-cookware-206831 "Official word straight from a fourth-generation cast iron manufacturer-soap will NOT ruin your cast."
I dilute the Dawn to 1/10 - 1/20 strength in the one-hand pump dispenser beside the sink and squirt only a drop or two into the pan. There isn't quite enough to remove all the olive oil and maybe sausage fat. The water beads up and runs off when I hang the pan vertically over the drying rack.
-jsw
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On Sat, 13 Jun 2015 07:54:48 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

I hadn't seen it? I forced a girlfriend to eat the next omelet from the pan once I caught her soaping my cast iron skillet. She almost threw up from the taste. Then I showed her how to clean it, desoap it, and season it properly. She's been a believer ever since.

<grumble, grumble, bloody knuckledraggers, grumble, grumble> It ruins it for ME. That's enough.
Cast iron is extremely porous. Soap simply taints the pan for ten more (soapless) washings so you have the taste of the soap and all its perfumes in your _food_ for that entire time. If you like that, carry on, but I'll still openly call ya a heathen for doing so. ;) The reason cast iron has such a bad name in many circles is because their idiot housewives used soap in them. I've helped dozens of misinformed people to rediscover the worth of these fine metal pans after ceasing soap use with them. Soap? Just Say NO!

Well, your dilution helps, but the Ick factor is still high.

I learned to boil my pan with plain water when it had to be cleaned, then to reseason. It has never failed me, and I _much_ prefer the soap-free taste, thankyouverymuch. I wipe my pans after use and reseason frequently used pans once every week or two. The boiled water helps keep the kitchen drain clear, too.
--
The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that it will not be needed
until they try to take it. --Thomas Jefferson
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On Sat, 13 Jun 2015 06:04:51 -0700, Larry Jaques

If you can taste the soap, then you've stripped off too much of the oxidized oil. Like Jim, I stopped listening to that "no soap" stuff around 30 years ago. My 48-year-old and 39-year-old pans don't taste like soap, and I wash them with soap almost every time I use them. Likewise, my c.i. Dutch oven, my c.i. griddle, and my two French carbon-steel saute pans.
Just don't scrub too hard or too long and you won't have to re-cure the pan. Get it just right, and you'll only have to strip the pan every 10 years or so, but it will remain stick-free all the while.

Spurious quotation, first recorded on the Internet in 2007. Jefferson never said it or anything like it.
--
Ed Huntress

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I don't use soap, but not because I cannot get the soap taste off - boiling an inch of water in the pan will do the job. As will heating the pan hot enough to burn the soap off, red hot being traditional, followed by re-seasoning. But there is a better way:
In the 1960s, I worked for a summer at a McDonalds making the shakes, and I watched the short-order cook (a 45 yo Texan). He just heated the grill sheet up, dumped some water on the surface, and scraped and scrubbed the boiling mess with a heavy steel scraper and an old rag. This was fast, and completely effective. He had to do this periodically, or the accumulated grunge would affect the taste of the hamburgers.
I still use the Texan's method, followed by smearing some grease (from whatever was last cooked) all over the now too-clean (rust-bait) surfaces.
Joe Gwinn
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Joe Gwinn wrote:

Same method I use on the big griddle. Heat it up, water, scrub/scrape and wipe clean, then toss a couple cheap burgers on and use the grease from them to do the final clean and reoil the surface.
Use a similar method with the iron pots/pans. But I use peanut oil and toss them in the BBQ to carbonize the oil.
--
Steve W.

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On Sat, 13 Jun 2015 09:20:00 -0400, Ed Huntress

My mother "washed" her cast iron skillet as far back as I can remember with no noticeable effects on the taste of her cooking. I suspect that the secret was that she "washed" it with a "dish rag" and soap and water, not with a steel brush.
--
cheers,

John B.
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