Really? I didn't know that! <not>
And why would one lubricate the rollers in a garage door track? Because
they do not roll precisely-true, and rub on the sides. And they're
noisy, metal on sheet metal, and all that; lubrication also quiets them.
Just to be clear, Ed; I knew all about that... its being sort of
"mechanics 101". The joke about BLO and graphite was a joke, so "off-
the-wall" that ANYBODY would have 'gotten it'. And so many didn't...
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:24:00 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
We seem to have a failure to communicate. <g> Let's see why that is:
"And to the guy who asked why anyone would lubricate a ROLLING
member...I don't know... why do they lubricate roller bearings?
To which Ed replies:
"To reduce friction against the cages and against each other, in
And Lloyd rejoins:
"Really? I didn't know that! <not>"
Lloyd, you asked a reasonable question, got an accurate and reasonable
answer, and now you seem to be perplexed about it. Carrying on:
"And why would one lubricate the rollers in a garage door track?
Because they do not roll precisely-true, and rub on the sides. And
they're noisy, metal on sheet metal, and all that; lubrication also
Which is generally true, but which HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUESTION
You asked why roller bearings are lubricated. And you expect an answer
to why one would lubricate a roller wheel on a sheet-metal track.
Different questions, and they get different answers. My solution, BTW,
is to shoot some oil into the bearings and don't wipe it up when some
oil drools out. It works great. No fuss, no muss. <g>
Now, about your linseed-and-graphite soup: You'd just given us a story
about "real" boiled linseed oil, which was sort of half cracker-barrel
technology and half old-wives's tale (more about this later), and now
you sound like you're serious about recommending this glop. Maybe you
were serious. What you said is partly true: linseed is used to protect
against rust (more about this later, too) and graphite is sometimes
mixed with binders for lubricating purposes. You seem to think that
some linseed doesn't get really hard, so maybe you thought that was
all a good idea. I didn't want to get into a big discussion about it
(an idea that now has become a complete loss <g>), so I let it slip
away after your sardonic remarks.
A few facts about linseed oil, boiled and otherwise: It boils at
around 300 deg. F. It smokes -- like crazy -- at around 225 deg. F.
When they boiled it in ancient times, it was done with a
metal-compound catalyst, which they called "metal salts," which was,
in earlier times, litharge. That's lead oxide. It wasn't until they
STOPPED boiling it, centuries later, that they found they could use
other metal salts to promote hardening without actually boiling the
oil. Today, it's often a cobalt compound. Sometimes it's a mixture of
a zinc compound and something else.
So I have no idea what you mean by "real" boiled linseed. They haven't
done that for well over a century. Where the idea came from MAY be
from the way they make "stand oil." For that, you heat linseed in a
sealed container to around 600 deg. F, for hours. The result is called
stand oil. It's used a lot in artist's oil paints, and small amounts
of it are sometimes mixed into the commercial product that we call
"boiled" linseed oil today. It's as thick as honey and it's partly
polymerized. It promotes polymerization of raw linseed. Don't do this
at home; a leak could cause an explosion.
So far, you've got some homebrew product that you're happy with, and
that's fine. But you got the tacky part all twisted up. Raw linseed
takes a very long time to harden. I sealed a pair of custom-made ash
oars, which I still have, with raw linseed the year we moved into our
house: 1978. By 1981 or so, they were nice and hard and dry. <g> They
took extra time because I didn't know at that time that you're
supposed to mix the first coat 50/50 with real turpentine. Now I know.
That's how I've done my gunstocks, only with boiled linseed rather
than raw linseed. The first coat takes weeks to dry. Subsequent coats,
hand-rubbed with the heel of my hand, take around a week or less. My
Model 1885 Browning falling-block, before I sold it, had over 20
hand-rubbed coats on it. It was absolutely beautiful. My antique
woodworking planes were treated the same way.
That was "commercial" boiled linseed. That's what "boiled" linseed is
today. It's refined raw linseed that contains metal compounds
(collectively known as "Japan driers") that catalyze the oil and
promote polymerization, which basically occurs from an oxidation
reaction. As I said, it may also contain some stand oil, some
turpentine (the artists' product, which is thicker than the turps we
used in house paint years ago), and sometimes other solvents.
Now, here's why I didn't get into this with you: You were partly
right. It can protect against rust, but it doesn't do very well in
open air. It's hydrophobic, but it's also porous. It's kind of a mixed
bag in terms of rust protection. For around 90 years, it's been used
to coat the inside of steel tubes used in aircraft tube frames as a
rust protectant. But here's the kicker: Its protection is based
partly, or maybe mostly, on "eating up" available oxygen in those
(hopefully) sealed tubes, as it oxidizes and polymerizes. In other
words, it starves the rust. And, if the tube is well sealed, it never
gets really hard.
So, not being a mind reader, and not knowing where you got your ideas
about "boiled" linseed oil, I let it slide. You do tend to be jumpy
from time to time, as we both know. d8-) I don't doubt your experience
with the oil but man, following you around the block can be a workout.
You obviously know nothing but "lore" about BLO.
It is not "boiled", it is slow-cooked at steam temperatures to cause the
oils/fats to separate from the resins. It is then carefully decanted
first, then filtered through material preferential to fats, until only
the resinous parts remain.
You read. I do. I've made authentic BLO furniture finishes since the
early 1960s by the method above. They don't "harden in a month". They
'cure' in a week.
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 15:39:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
The jargon in that business is so fouled up that you might mean
anything. Artists make at least a dozen varieties, several of them
"boiled," and some of them "heat-bodied," some "stand oil," some
"sun-thickened," and so on. They're old terms that refer to many
different heat treatments that have been used through the centuries.
There is no single "lore."
What I've found to work best on cast iron pans is peanut oil. Smear
pan all over, heat up until it starts smoking, set aside. The oil
turns to varnish right away. Lard also works, but takes longer to
cure. Likewise tallow.
Peanut oil is the one often recommended by chefs and cookware
manufacturers, supposedly because it has a high smoking temperature
and seals the cast-iron pores better than other oils.
I used it 40 years ago, but I don't like the smell and switched to
other oils. I never noticed a difference in how my pans behave but
there are so many other factors involved that it's hard to tell.
I'll bet that 20W-40 would work really well. 'Maybe even better if you
load it with graphite powder. d8-)
I've read that too, though I was using peanut oil long before, probably
because I observed that it seemed to turn to varnish pretty quickly.
Turning this around, I've also discovered that the quickest way to
remove burned-on crud in the bottom of a pan is methylene-chloride
based paint stripper - the cured food oil is in fact varnish.
Any unsaturated edible oil will do, though some cure better than
others, and the taste of the oil varies as well.
As for peanut oil, once the oil on the pan has cured, one cannot taste
the oil. Especially after frying some meat.
I have not tried it, but I bet corn oil would work. Likewise safflower
I bet the viscosity modifiers are tasty.
For the burned-on crud on the *outside* of my cast iron ware, I apply
a coarse  3M Clean'n'Strip(tm) wheel or the Walther equialent every
couple of years. These flexible mesh wheels cut well enough to remove
*any* organic crud (or even mill scale from new stock) without gouging
the base metal. I have a circa 1925 B&D end grinder that's just right
for the application.
 3M makes them in 3 grades. But it's so much bother to get stuff
from the 3M industrial catalogue that I usually go for Walther
from a local dealer.
Does the smell of peanut oil always seem off to you too? I don't mind
peanuts or peanut butter, but the smell of peanut oil or even slightly
old peanut butter bugs me. Nobody else I've come across yet even know what
I'm talking about when I bring this up.
On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 17:27:05 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
I think it's because I live near several Chinese restaurants, and the
smell reminds me of gastric distress. <g>
Seriously, I just don't like the smell of hot peanut oil. Like you,
I'm fine with the smell of peanuts and peanut butter.
On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 17:27:05 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
As the oil ages it starts to oxidize and become rancid. You are
probably very sensitive to peanut oilthat is starting to turn rancid.
I have a problem with raw fish that has sat around too long. My wife,
who has a much better sense of smell, isn't put off by some fish that
smells really bad to me. So I think that I am just way more sensitive
to that one smell than she is.
I chipped and scraped out my grandmother's baked-on crust and cook
breakfast in a few drops of olive oil, then lightly wash the frypan
with Dawn and a plastic brush. The remaining black coating is thin but
very stable and the iron doesn't rust while drip-drying. Omelettes
come loose easily in it without splitting.
I don't run the wood stove hot enough to make the oil smoke.
I started using canola oil on my cast iron decades ago. Boil out the
pan, reboil and wipe with un-soaped cloth. Heat it on the stove until
very hot, pour in some canola oil, swipe around, and let sit, cooling
for 5 minutes, then wipe down with paper towel to remove excess oil.
Once the pan is cool, it's seasoned and ready. I use 3:1 virgin
coconut oil to butter as my "oil" for cooking. Neither leaves it
Ayieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Heathen monster!
Thou Shalt -Not- Soap the Cast Iron Pan, EVER!
Yeah, properly seasoned cast iron is as good or better than PTFE.
Omelettes must take hours, then. Condolences.
Worrying does not take away tomorrow's troubles,
it takes away today's peace. --Lifehack
I've been waiting for that mailbomb to explode.
What took so long?
"Official word straight from a fourth-generation cast iron
manufacturer-soap will NOT ruin your cast."
I dilute the Dawn to 1/10 - 1/20 strength in the one-hand pump
dispenser beside the sink and squirt only a drop or two into the pan.
There isn't quite enough to remove all the olive oil and maybe sausage
fat. The water beads up and runs off when I hang the pan vertically
over the drying rack.
I hadn't seen it? I forced a girlfriend to eat the next omelet from
the pan once I caught her soaping my cast iron skillet. She almost
threw up from the taste. Then I showed her how to clean it, desoap
it, and season it properly. She's been a believer ever since.
<grumble, grumble, bloody knuckledraggers, grumble, grumble>
It ruins it for ME. That's enough.
Cast iron is extremely porous. Soap simply taints the pan for ten
more (soapless) washings so you have the taste of the soap and all its
perfumes in your _food_ for that entire time. If you like that, carry
on, but I'll still openly call ya a heathen for doing so. ;) The
reason cast iron has such a bad name in many circles is because their
idiot housewives used soap in them. I've helped dozens of misinformed
people to rediscover the worth of these fine metal pans after ceasing
soap use with them. Soap? Just Say NO!
Well, your dilution helps, but the Ick factor is still high.
I learned to boil my pan with plain water when it had to be cleaned,
then to reseason. It has never failed me, and I _much_ prefer the
soap-free taste, thankyouverymuch. I wipe my pans after use and
reseason frequently used pans once every week or two. The boiled
water helps keep the kitchen drain clear, too.
The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that it will not be needed
until they try to take it. --Thomas Jefferson
If you can taste the soap, then you've stripped off too much of the
oxidized oil. Like Jim, I stopped listening to that "no soap" stuff
around 30 years ago. My 48-year-old and 39-year-old pans don't taste
like soap, and I wash them with soap almost every time I use them.
Likewise, my c.i. Dutch oven, my c.i. griddle, and my two French
carbon-steel saute pans.
Just don't scrub too hard or too long and you won't have to re-cure
the pan. Get it just right, and you'll only have to strip the pan
every 10 years or so, but it will remain stick-free all the while.
Spurious quotation, first recorded on the Internet in 2007. Jefferson
never said it or anything like it.
I don't use soap, but not because I cannot get the soap taste off -
boiling an inch of water in the pan will do the job. As will heating
the pan hot enough to burn the soap off, red hot being traditional,
followed by re-seasoning. But there is a better way:
In the 1960s, I worked for a summer at a McDonalds making the shakes,
and I watched the short-order cook (a 45 yo Texan). He just heated the
grill sheet up, dumped some water on the surface, and scraped and
scrubbed the boiling mess with a heavy steel scraper and an old rag.
This was fast, and completely effective. He had to do this
periodically, or the accumulated grunge would affect the taste of the
I still use the Texan's method, followed by smearing some grease (from
whatever was last cooked) all over the now too-clean (rust-bait)
Same method I use on the big griddle. Heat it up, water, scrub/scrape
and wipe clean, then toss a couple cheap burgers on and use the grease
from them to do the final clean and reoil the surface.
Use a similar method with the iron pots/pans. But I use peanut oil and
toss them in the BBQ to carbonize the oil.
My mother "washed" her cast iron skillet as far back as I can remember
with no noticeable effects on the taste of her cooking. I suspect that
the secret was that she "washed" it with a "dish rag" and soap and
water, not with a steel brush.
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