Grinder that makes the hummmmmmmmm sound

Oct 10, 2009 58 Replies

I think I could scare up an old Heathkit audio generator out in the shed, but I've never run across a workable scope. Or a true TV Repair style signal generator.

Never got into TV component-level repairs, so I wasn't going to spend the bucks on a new or near-new scope. I've used them and they are a handy thing to have if you have one, but Electricians don't get much practical use out of them.

(Yes, there are Power Quality issues where watching the waveform might be handy, lke diagnosing Neutral Harmonics or signal strength issues on a Powerline Carrier system like X-10/Decora Home Control. Again, never had the need bad enough to track one down.)

And anything that I ran into through the 'free to a good home' category was only good as a parts burner - already half stripped of all the expensive bits, or worked over with a baseball bat.

Now if I had a reason, I might go get one of those "Scope in a Computer" ADC boards and use an old PC for the mule - but again, never really had a need. And while the boards are a lot less than a full-on Scopemeter, they still aren't cheap.

And I probably could Frankenstein something together like an ESR Meter, but it takes more experience to diagnose the device and the tool at the same time, to interpret flaky readings. Better to start with known good gear like a Fluke 27, where you know the flaky looking readings are accurate and it's the device under test that's flaky.

See, I do know what I don't know. You can't diagnose wonky gear with wonky tools - you'll end up spending half the day chasing your tail down blind alleys.

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Need scopes? Ive got extras.

Gunner

"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement, reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"

Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno

All you need is a filament transformer to check motor capacitors. The 100 KHz source is for capacitors used in SMPS. Completely different breed of capacitor, but it's the same test. The only difference is the test frequency.

I spent several years doing TV repair when that department was backed up, but i did more commercial sound & industrial electronics in the early '70s. After my time in the military I started a business of my own, did commercial Two way radio repair, and computer repair when you needed a scope and excellent soldering skills.

You can calibrate the 99 cent ESR meter with a few resistors and easily get to a couple percent. Even using a cheap digital AC voltmeter. A basic ESR meter is a low impedance source of a sine wave (Or equivalent digital, and software to calculate the difference) in series with a known resistance to provide a constant current in the desired range. The meter doesn't care if it's pure resistance, ESR, ESL or any combination.

I've picked up free, working Heathkit scopes at hamfests, and bought Working Tektronix and HP scopes for around $10. The most I've paid for any of my scopes was $200 for a portable Tektronix dual trace 65 MHz with a couple probes to repair industrial electronics on site, whenever possible. It paid for itself in a couple jobs. :)

There is some free software to use a PC's sound card.

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is one of them

I agree that good tools are needed for some electronics. One board I worked on was the AGC system for several Telemetry products. You were only allowed 1.5 mV error over a 0 - 5 volt output. That included all the offset errors, and gain errors in 10 op amps. They used +5, -5, +12 and -12 volt supplies. All four had to be accurate to three decimal places or you couldn't pass a board.

That's why I use the best equipment I can afford, or build custom test fixtures for repetitive work. :) After all, I used to build & repair test fixtures for Microdyne, so why not build my own?

It's a thought - except I'm already fully stocked up on Cats.

Not gonna get me - I read the fine print on that "Free Kitten With Every Purchase" sign that says it is not optional... ;-P

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Damnit! Your too smart for me!

If you really DO need a scope, I do have extras. And no cats will be shipped. Damnit.

Sigh

GUnner

"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement, reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"

Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:26:18 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch scrawled the following:

See that email I sent you this morning. The last pic is a sign saying "Unattended Children will be given an espresso and a free puppy". I'll bet parents pay attention to that one.

I've seen that sign at a baker in a town near Boston: . Don't think the sign is on the website.

Joe Gwinn

I could use one, but you have priorities - you need to get that valve fixed first so you have wheels that work, and an excuse (like paying work) to drive down here. And you might want to give that doctor visit and scrip refill priority, even if you have to waste the whole day going to County.

I've been scraping for work too, just got two full days for myself and our Laborer/Apprentice. (Huzzah!) Rest of the week I might get half days for myself only, if that - just enough to cover the gas and insurance...

Ooh, that's good! Gotta remember to put that one up right next to "Labor Rates - $X an hour, $Y if you watch, $Z if you help."'

Might have to modify that one - AFAICT Gunner's fresh outta puppies right now, but kittens are always in season...

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It will probably be done by the weekend. All the exhaust valves are "worn"according to my buddy. I normally buy my gas at the various AM-PMs..been doing it for 15 yrs...but he claims its no good and burned the valves. The last truck got about 290k miles before I had to swap engines..it now has 440k after putting in a used engine. It wont pass smog anymore..so its time for another engine..and a couple years worth of expired tags...cringe....

Ill dig you out a scope and box it up and next time I come through, Ill call or drop it off at one of my clients in Burbank or Van Nuys and call you with the address. Thats your area..right?

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Don't forget "$W if your kid helps." ;-) ($W > $Z, of course.)

Cheers! Rich

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:23:35 -0700, the infamous Rich Grise scrawled the following:

And add "$3X if you've worked on it before it got to me."

Oooooh yeah - because the "Handyman" always goes to the main Home Run box where 6 or 8 lighting circuits, 2 or 3 constant circuits (sprinkler clocks and gates) converge and head back to the panel, and he works for about 30 minutes past where he has a single fecking

*clue* what he's doing.

Then takes Every Single Wirenut Off and Every Single Connection in the splice box apart (removing all my clues to putting it back together quickly...)

Then (and only then) they stuff it all back in the box, throw on the lid so nobody can see the sparks, and call for help.

Five Hours to put that box back togther, 30 minutes to track down and clear the one shorted fixture that started it all.

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Been there, did the 'One Day Permit' Dance for a month waiting for the cats to come in. Thank You Auto Club of So Cal, for getting me in and out usually in under 20 minutes.

Had to put $1,800 worth of Factory Catalysts and Exhaust on my C3500 to get it to pass. My brother dropped a fresh 5.8? (350!) Crate Motor in it at 125K before I got the hand-me-down truck, but the catalysts just plain gave up at 140K.

And I have to call shenanigans about 'bad gas' at ARCO. There are minimum standards that all the fuels have to meet, or the Feds and the AQMD won't let them sell it. Part of the reason it costs so *$#)(*&! much more around here, it's a bunch of slightly different boutique blends for each region.

Woodland Hills - you get to Van Nuys and turn left... Don't really /need/ need one, but there are times where it would be darned handy, so that works out fine by me. Now I need to find something in my wanderings around here that /you/ need...

And remember the rules, No wishing for more wishes.

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Add 50% Cringe Factor and 75% Aggravation Factor for the customer who says: "Well, my (insert friend/relative/complete stranger) is a (insert fictitious professional designation here) knows all about electricity took it apart and checked it out and he/she says it's the (insert part that doesn't even exist on this particular piece of equipment) so just fix that -- and as cheaply as possible please and I'll be by to pick it up. (insert totally unrealistic/impossible time frame that implies all those other pieces in the shop couldn't possibly be ahead of _his_ job.)"

Shooting such customers out of hand is considered bad form and tends to attract official attention. But it would feel _so_ good!

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:40:01 -0400, the infamous John Husvar scrawled the following:

When I was tutoring folks and repairing computers in the early days of PCs (late 80s), I used to get lots of computers whose autoexec.bat and config.sys files had been edited by nothing other than Word Imperfect, usually by All Knowing Marines from Campen next door. ;) I made lots of money off the Marine Corps back then, and I wasn't even employed by the gov't!

Yeah, Cringe and Aggravation Factors are real! Good call, John.

Amen! Another one ripe for that is the high-pitched, whiny tone from some women who know it all (except how to fix X machine.) Garroting is considered poor form, too, despite all my spare guitar strings. ("Today's decap special is...")

------ We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.

It's too bad that ejection seats cost so much. ;-)

Oddly enough, one such job greeted me this morning. Customer dropped off an Invacare MK IV A joystick with a torn cable. For the fourth time.

OK, no problem. A little solder, a little heat shrink and Bob's yer uncle. Repair took about half an hour, including finding where the new shop super had hidden the soldering stations _this_ time while reorganizing the shelves and benches.

I opened the joystick to make sure I had continuity all the way from the plug to the PCB and found: The conductors were torn off the PCB too, the inductive can had been replaced and haywired to the PCB.

OK, that is a fairly easy job. Just cut the small wires, splice the new can into the existing wiring and you're done. but the wires had been spliced by twisting the ends together and covering the "splices" with little strips of duct tape; no solder, not even butt splices, just twisted together and duct taped. The splices held just long enough for the conductors to pull loose of the PCB and the board was cracked.

In the immortal words of Charlie Brown: AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!

I gave up. I called a rebuilding service and got an estimate for the guy: $520 plus S&H. He already got the last MK IV A joystick I had salvaged from scrapped or donated chairs months ago. Now maybe he'll appreciate the 4 times I've repaired the blasted thing before and the 2 complete sets of controls and motors I've outright given him the past couple of years.

But I doubt it. :)

I feel for the guy. He's a hard worker, tries to make it on his own as much as he can. Hell, he mows lawns, delivers newspapers, and does every kind of odd job he can find; all from power wheelchairs, one new and a couple of his old ones we've kept going for him as best we could. He needs his chairs, but somehow he's got to learn not to let his "friends" stick their mitts into his electronics!

Unattended Children will be given a small espresso and a free puppy.

Annoying, Unattended Children will be given a large espresso and 'two' free kittens.

;-)

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