Hardinge HLV

I have the opportunity to purchase for my shop a Hardinge HLV lathe that looks to be in good shape and I need to have some idea what is a fair
price to pay. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Fred
Concord, NC
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I uploaded a photo of the lathe to
http://users.vnet.net/warydragon/misc/hardinge_hlv.jpg
I have not seen the lathe yet so I cannot describe it in more detail.
Fred wrote:

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On Jan 24, 6:47 pm, Fred <"warydragon AT gmail DOT com"> wrote:

Fred Looks like the shop where it is is kept nice and clean. Perhaps it is an indicator of the condition of the lathe. For pricing I would look on Ebay and consider how far it must be shipped to your shop.
Bob AZ
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On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:47:30 -0500, Fred <"warydragon AT gmail DOT com"> wrote:

Looks decent. Its been repainted. An older machine, not english/metric. Probably from the mid 1950s.
When you go see it...on the top right of the compound..there is a carraige lock. Its a horizontal lever. Run the carraige to the headstock..and gently pull on that lever until it produces some friction on the carraige. Now roll the carraige towards the tailstock and see where it starts to stiffen up..get harder to move. More than likely within the first 8-12"
That wear on the dovetail. How accurate are you needing the lathe to be? Even pretty worn..it will work to half thous if you do your part.
Check backlash/play in carraige handwheel. Much means significant wear of gear train. Also can be lived with, no problem. A loose wheel means a worn bushing. Easily fixed with a bit of brass (bronze perfered)
Remove collet closer (pull collet, then pull the pin on the head stock end of the collet closer support arm, and pull it to the left..comes right off. It will bang around inside the headstock and bugger up the next tests with its noise.
Run the spindle up to 800 rpm. Take a bar of something..and hold it in your fist like a dagger. Put your thumb on the top of the bar..and stick it in your ear. Then put the end of the bar on the round ring behind the spindle nose. Listen. repeat on the other end..just to the right of the black knob sticking out of the upper quadrant of the headstock (spindle lock). Listen. If you hear any tickticktick or a rumble..spindle bearings are noisy. About $380 a pair if they are Bad..noisy is just a warning sign... the less noise..the longer you have before they need replacement.
Open the door to the motor compartment. You will see a yoke with a pair of wierd looking pullies and two flat belts. Inspect the belts for breaks/cracks. About $35 each
Run the lathe at 500 rpm. Listen to the bearings on each end of the shaft running through the yoke. About $6 each
Run the vari drive up and down from low to high and baack down. Any harmonics in the body of the lathe will show up in finish. Any serious noise can be located by the bar method. Bad motor mounts can make a serious noise, when coupled with a bad belt(s)..easy fix.
Check high and low speeds Check forwards and reverse. Make sure that the threading shaft turns when engaged. Make sure the gear box actually changes the threading shaft rpm when the two knobs(thread/feed and 1-2-3 thread rates) are moved to different positions.
Grab the compound and push and pull..any movement means a worn nut or lead screw in the cross feed or compound. Easy fix, not all that expensive
lock tailstock (lever at rear just above base of tailstock. Push and pull on the tailstock ram. Movement means worn lead screw. Try moving ram side to side. Shouldnt be any, even when extended.
Engage power feed levers..to the right of carraige handwheel. One makes carraige move, the other moves cross slide. Control panel on the far end, under the tailstock has a rheostate..makes em go faster and slower..and a toggle switch should reverse direction.
Check coolant pump.
See of owner has a set of metric gears and any tooling. A 3 jaw is important as well as a tailstock drill chuck (MT2 taper)
See if he has follower rest, taper attachment or steady rest. All are rare..you may get lucky.
Spindle nose recommended in CamLock style...threaded is doable.
Take ANYTHING he offers in the way of tooling for this lathe.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/hardinge/index.html
Read carefully!!
Gunner, 805-732-5308 if you want to call me from the site. Or anytime actually.
"Deep in her heart, every moslem woman yearns to show us her tits" John Griffin
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On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:54:51 -0500, Fred <"warydragon AT gmail DOT com"> wrote:

California..depending on age and condition...$5500-9000. Minty with DRO and tooling...up to $15k.
Ive seen em cheaper..some hammered..some pretty fair..but the deals are only occasional.
Mine..well...it was cheaper <VBG>
Gunner
"Deep in her heart, every moslem woman yearns to show us her tits" John Griffin
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Gunner,
You must have figured out I am not a trained machinist. I really appreciate the detail of your analysis checklist. It's exactly what I need. I would not have thought of most of the your checks. Thank you, thank you!
Unfortunately, I will not be able to run this lathe be4 buying it. I know it had been taken care of and have been told that it was being used be4 the move. Being as old as is, it could have all sorts of trouble and the bearing cost estimates sure help.
Thank you for the reference to the UK lathe site . . . very informative.
I do appreciate your help. I have been monitoring this newsgroup for quite a while and I am always impressed with your responses willingness to help.
Again, thank you,
Fred
Gunner wrote:

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Am I correct in thinkin that a huge advantage to the hardinge is that for x dollars you can have new bearings and the spindle ground to perfect, and for x dollars you can have new bed to bolt on and off you go, so that even if it is fairly slammed, you are only risking so much?
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Indeed. However..the biggest advantage of the Hardinge..is it is damned well engineered, marvelously accurate and just about bulletproof.
Gunner
"Deep in her heart, every moslem woman yearns to show us her tits" John Griffin
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Is that HLV or HLV-H Gunner?
Mark Rand RTFM
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wrote:

Mine is a 1982, HLV-H
The one in the picture I believe to be a mid 50s HLV. Hardinge did a redesign in 1960, putting on a wider bed and so forth. Virtually all narrow ways models were prior to 1960
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f;t1611;p=0
"There are several visible design differences between the pre- and post-1960 HLV or TFB type lathes. Hardinge added the "-H" to the model to differentiate the post 1960 design, which had a wider bed and many design improvements. Many sellers give incorrect dates and model designations for the 1950-1960 models, so it is a good idea to study the pictures.
Read the information below and then study the pictures of the several examples for sale on eBay at any given time.
Note the tailstock design. Pre-1960 tailstocks have the feed crank attached to the spindle, which passes clear through the casting. Post-1960 tailstocks have much heavier castings, with the feed crank attached to the casting.
Note the bottom right front corner of the headstock. Pre-1960 headstocks have no bolt there. Post-1960 headstocks have a vertical socket head capscrew there, to attach the headstock to the bed casting. Pre-1960 headstocks have a bulge on the front midway between the spindle bearings to clear the drive belts. The post-1960 headstock has no bulge, because the belts are overhung on the left end of the spindle.
There are other differences, but the ones I mentioned are usually visible in pictures and are sufficient to identify the model. The bed width is one of the important differences, but it is not often mentioned in descriptions and is difficult to judge in a picture.
By the way, the differences I mentioned can also be applied to identifying DV59 and DSM59 lathes made pre- and post-1960. Hardinge did a major redesign on several models in 1960."
My TFB has the narrow bed and the center belts.
Gunner
"Deep in her heart, every moslem woman yearns to show us her tits" John Griffin
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. It looked like an HLV, but I was asking if the prices you gave were appropriate for HLV or HLV-H lathes.
Hardinges fetch lower prices in the UK, but are also, much less common. I suppose one follows the other!
I notice that the one in the picture has the electrical speed changer rather than the hand crank. Presumably this puts it nearer to 1960 than 1950.
I'm toying with mackling on the electric speed changer from late-father's DV59 onto the HLV-BK that I'm rebuilding. It might be just as simple to put an inverter on and ignore the hand crank.
Last week I put in an order for 47 bearings for mine,. Everything except the ones on the mandrel, I scored a replacement headstock and re-ground bed with good bearings for $120-ish on Ebay. I'm in the process of re-manufacturing all the gears and shafts for the apron gearbox. A friend has offered the use of a hobbing machine and 22DP hob, so I've made up a batch of gear blanks and arbours for it:-
http://www.test-net.com/arbours/finished_gear_blanks.jpg
It looks like the shafts were not hardened where the needle rollers ran and this didn't help them when someone used soluble oil and chips as a lubricant.
Mark Rand RTFM
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