Heat pump refrigerant change to R-22 substitute

Bad idea. If the stuff worked, the engineers would have used it, back when.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

If it were that simple, R22 would be getting changed out all over. Pretty sure you got to have a compressor designed for the new stuff.

if you like being insulted, go ask over on alt.hvac (don't have theNG name quite right)

Karl

Karl Townsend fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Yeah. They feel pretty important about themselves over there, even though, as a lot, they probably don't know much more about AC than the average home shop mechanic. There are a few experts there, if you can get them to talk about anything except "take it to an expert".

On the R22 thing... switch to propane, if you're doing it yourself.

Lloyd

LPG works well in car a/c

Alan

Yep, right up until it goes BOOM... Oh and the minor point of it being illegal in the US.

Here is a controlled test that is going to demonstrate just how safe propane is. These guys are ones who tell you how safe it is and that leaks aren't a problem.

"Steve W." fired this volley in news:jpo0im$eg$1 @dont-email.me:

Consider how uber-cautious the Germans are. Then consider that most of their small AC systems are now on propane.

And consider how dangerous CFCs and HFCs are in contact with flame.

I'd go for something that only produces CO2 and water when burnt.

LLoyd

Google R290

First thing to do is fix the leak, you asshole.

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in news:M-2dndqKIr4LOSLSnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@scnresearch.com:

Yeah, but you miss the point. Since it's a "refrigerant", you can't buy it without the EPA certificate.

You can get dry propane all day long, elsewhere.

LLoyd

Who said it leaked? Mabee he wanted to improve the efficiency of the system??? Or mabee, like me, he relocated the unit and needed to empty it in order to make the move. Now that it is all sealed up and evacuated he's wondering, "do I, or don't I??"

Except id didn'r exist "back then". My unit was 38 years old.

Change over, as in replacing the whole system, or change over as in just putting a different refrigerant in the same system? The former is expensive, the latter almost certainly won't work. Each system is designed for a specific refrigerant, and with a few exceptions, can't be converted to use a different gas. The thermodynamic properties of the different gases are very different, requiring different compressor displacement and compression ratio, as well as often changing lube oil.

Jon

Not last time I checked.

Been there done it--still got most of a 50lb bucket of chinese perc and = a double closet full of various other shit to prove it.

Fuels are in the left compartment, oxidizers on the right. =20

Last I checked, legal to transport here so long as it's not a "finished = firework" which means I suppose that you're good to go even with several = tons in a ready box, as long as there's no fuze attached...

Downside is, the police and fire marshalls can (and usually do) = confiscate on a whim, and can ( and usually do) immediately destroy it = leaving you with little in the way of evidence to prove that you were = indeed operating inside the law.

years, because the compressor "wouldn't start"...

make the move.

(again) tripped.

OK - I did not receive the first post, indicating it was low on gas. I actually CHANGED my compressor unit - using the old one to draw the new one down, after removing the original R20 from the old system using the new compressor and an old (pre-anti-fill-valve) R20 tank to hold the old gas. Had my nephew come and gas it up with some fresh R20 when I was all done. I had done the "draw down" test - he pressure tested with Nitrogen to be sure "the old goat" had gotten it tight before drawing it down again and doing the fill.

That SilPhos 15 rod works a lot easier than solder!!!. Self fluxing on copper, and it just flows like honey!!

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in news:utCdnU3Ls4SjZSLSnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@scnresearch.com:

Nope. Changes, partly in ATF regs, but mostly in _rulings_by_the_director_ over the last two-three years have made it illegal for anyone to transport over a public road for any purpose unless licensed by ATF; you cannot even hire a properly-equipped-and-licensed lading company to do it unless you have both the ATF license AND proper EX numbers -- even if not in commerce. You _can_ "give" them to a licensee for transport, but then he cannot 'convey' them back to you under any circumstances. This was intentional, and not an artifact of the rulings.

I'm in that business... in this, you can believe me (even if you don't on the rest).

(Chinese perc? Oh please... what about the Swedish stuff? The Chinese HP-140 is loaded with a color-contaminating anti-cake that wrecks just about any blue you try to make with it. And the HP-140 is their "high purity" version! )

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" fired this volley in news:XnsA05EB2498CF58lloydspmindspringcom@216.168.3.70:

I should have added, "any listed explosive", and they've changed the definition of "public highway" to mean _any_ roadway, path, or easement that is not gated, locked, and unavailable to any public conveyance at any time.

In other words... a two-tire sand track across a pasture is a "public highway" unless it's gated and locked, and nobody has a key except for you and your "employee possessors". We lost the use of a cross-pasture road at our magazine site for several weeks until we convinced the owner of the land to put up a code-key gate, which we had to pay for.

Seriously... don't get caught by this one, if you ever intend to make any other amateur goods. They will now fry you, really badly.

LLoyd

IT ISN'T, TARD-BOY LIES!

Don't bother with the fool. I have handed him his ass so many times, he's so pissed he'll lie about anything. No leaks! I did have a small leak last year due to a leaky Schreader valve, it took 18 oz of R-22.

I'm interested in the energy savings of 40% or better...if that's real

THAT'S why I ask, when it sounds too good to be true.....

I've heard about using propane. AND I've heard the new refrigerants are similarly petro-based and flammable. Is there an energy savings?