History of Machine Tools

I thought the punch card and linked card machines used in textile industry pre-dated the Holerith card and punch cards.

I'm sure CNC is there - but I believe Bell Labs pre dated MIT or elsewhere. The issue it was Military secret and never was part of history. Maybe someday those dark days will see the light of day.

These are akin to the Kodak film that they developed with micro fine chevrons for high resolution - but for the Mil - Fuji went ahead with private versions and made the big bucks. Much later - years and years they were released only with new technology.

Martin [used early punch card printers and computers ] [still has a TTY-AA/AS/U in 8 bits, gave away my 5 bit.]

Belt = good (don't have to oil them like chain-driven) ;)

I've never poked around to see what they have, but this one might have something

i once was faced with the problem as to how the first screws where made--my research into this opened up a whole field of interest--knowing how this was done made me aware of teh beauty of machines--I suspect that any student who does not appreciate the beauty of metal machines and what goes into them probabvly will just be an automatron--do not interprete this as derogatory just my own observations over the years--i am not a machinist

a few years back aparently a bucnh of massive old machines where being transported somewhere--the trailors parked on a side street here in the bronx--they where massive machines one I remeber was a shaper--first one i ever saw--many looked like wwII stuff---what stories there machines could have told!

i once got into the history of electron spark machining--discovered in Russia by two brothers during the nazi invasion of Russia--whiss i could find out modre about them

Husband and wife, actually. The Lazarenkos.

That's a long story, and it's the one aspect of machine-tool history in which I do claim some expertise. Whether you really want to credit the Lazarenkos with the "discovery" depends on how you interpret some of the earlier history.

The Lazarenkos claim to have made their "discovery" in 1943, at which time they supposedly published a white paper on it in the Soviet Union. But the paper wasn't released to the public nor to foreigners until after the war was over.

In fact, there had been manual-servo tap-busters on the market since the

1920s. In the mid-to-late 1930s, some were being used for rough EDM machining, such as eroding square holes. Liquid dielectric was in use with these machines, and, contrary to much of what you'll read, so were RC relaxation circuits. Just before the US entered WWII, the company that would become Elox during the 1950s sold one or two machines to the Soviets *with hydraulic servos*! In other words, every element that the Lazarenkos claim to have "invented" was known and was in use years earlier -- although not, from the history I've seen, all in the same machine.

This was about the time that the Soviets also claim to have invented baseball, so take their claims with a big grain of salt. Right at the end of the war the US Air Force was working on a secret method they called "Method X." You'll see references to it in the magazines published around 1948 -

1949. Method X turns out to have been EDM, as well.

It was American Machinist that first published the Lazarenko story in the US, around 1948, if I recall correctly, and it was Charmilles (Switzerland) that has published their version of it over and over since around 1952. Most of what you'll read is a repeat of the story as Charmilles tells it.

Ed Huntress

Ed,

What bothers me is that prior to the wide spread application of nc / cnc, profiling machines such as the Keller, and Morey and later the hydraulic tracing units by Rosebrook, Tru trace, and H&H Wilson (Cincinnati even had a Bridgeport sized one caled the "contourmaster") were quite common where high precision contour milling for things like airframe components and molds, ect were needed...........in fact all the very same industries where cnc is so prevalent today.

These machine tools were in widespread use until as late as the mid eighties, yet scant reference to them is to be found today--especially on the internet.

When I started out in machining, cnc was too expensive for most shops, but anyone doing aerospace work had several "profilers"....hell, one shop I worked at in the early 80's likely had 30 of them in various forms, converted planers and wilsons with up to eight spindles on them........

Sadly, it seems a whole generation of machine tools appears to be on the verge of becoming lost in history.

I have seem some very old machines still being used in some shops. One shop has a vertical boring mill from 1881 and anther one just as old. I got some of the bolts I had to replace and you couldn't tell by looking that they were that old except by the fact they had slot heads in stead of hex or allen head. I have an heald internal grinder from 1911 that does the job fine. Its been rescraped in and motors added but it runs fine.

John

It's at Holland College, in PEI. (Atlantic Canada) Course info is on their web site -

I almost died doing my presentation. I thought my knees were going to give out from under me. I lived through it though. We have another one in three weeks. Argh. lol :D

chem

Our book is the fourth edition. According to our outline we're only doing Unit 57 in Section 6 - Compound Angles, and then we skip ahead to the CNC section.

Our class has a big difference in the math level people are coming in with. Some had general math in high school, and one guy took a couple of math courses in university. For some of us it's been years since math class in high school, so it's a bit rusty. Our teacher is cool about that though - she works at a slow pace with the people who need it, but if you feel comfortable with the material you can write the test early and skip the rest of the classes for that section and go work in the shop or whatever. Our pass is 70%, and the way our grading system works, I don't think it matters if you get 70% or 100%. At the end of the year we either pass math or we don't, and it just counts as one of our skills. No final grade for the year. As far as I know. That's not stopping me from trying to get the highest mark I can, but it's not such a big deal if I get a couple of questions wrong. And the tests are pretty short, so three wrong answers drops the mark quite a bit.

Some of the stuff in the book seems... Well, sometimes I feel like I did in high school "When am I ever going to use this?" But for most of it, I can see where I'll be applying it. We're doing algebra now, and some of the people in class don't see why, but if you flip through something like the Machinery's Handbook and see all the formulas... Well, that answers that question. :)

Automotive reading, huh? Is that something related to work or just something you're doing for yourself? What book are you reading right now? I find the reading I've been doing a bit dry (I've been trying to figure out some of this metallurgy stuff), but when it sinks in it's like something just *clicks* and things start to make sense.

We did our CAD with AutoCAD LT. When we do CNC later on I think we use MasterCAM (not sure if I got the name right, but it sounds something like that).

Not sure what area I want to get into. I'd eventually like to be a tool and die maker or something else that would make me think. The prospect of being a button pusher for the rest of my life... Well, let's just not go there...

chem

j> Hi,

Yeah, they disappeared surprisingly fast. I've remarked before on the same thing you've observed. I don't even know where they went.

Ed Huntress

I got an American Pacemaker in the shop with a tracer attachment and css from the late 50's Its a shame to get rid of it but the cncs will do the same thing better and faster.

John

When Certified Aerospace went belly up in the mid/ ( late ? ) eighties, a little Chinaman came to the auction and bought about twenty five of them, large converted planer mills with hydraulic tracers, and also some Wilsons that had cnc (Tera) controls--ballscrews, electric servos, and the whole bit.

He was representing the Chinese government. I sometimes refer to machinery this size as "Mother Machines"...........With a little ingenuity, they can be easily put to use in mass production of smaller machine tools---as such, I was saddened to see them leave our soil.

"Our book is the fourth edition. According to our outline we're only doing Unit 57 in Section 6 - Compound Angles, and then we skip ahead to the CNC section."

How long have you been enrolled in this machining class ?

"Our teacher is cool about that though - she works at a slow pace with the people who need it, but if you feel comfortable with the material you can write the test early and skip the rest of the classes for that section and go work in the shop or whatever"

Hope your trying to do this as much as possible. The more hands on you can get with the schools machines, the easier it's going to be on you when your no longer in school. Are you working with both knee mills and lathes right now ?

"Automotive reading, huh? Is that something related to work or just something you're doing for yourself?"

I see aerospace machining as a dead end job in Phoenix, Arizona. I would like to broaden my skill base and build high performance engines and various components that are used on them. Perhaps 5 axis cylinder head work. I can see going into business for myself in the future doing high performance engine related work. I would never want to open my own machining job shop. Don't like what you have to put up with to do business with Honeywell which is who most companies in Phoenix do business with or do a large part of their business with.

"What book are you reading right now?"

Stayed up most of last night and finished:

Super Tuning And Modifying Holley Carburetors (Performance, Street and Off-Road Applications) by Dave Emanuel

This afternoon started:

Holley Rebuilding And Modifying (A Guide To Holley Modular Carburetors) by Jeff Williams

Should be able to finish the above book by this weekend.

"I find the reading I've been doing a bit dry (I've been trying to figure out some of this metallurgy stuff), but when it sinks in it's like something just *clicks* and things start to make sense."

Machining has a massive learning curve to it. A lot of things you can't even read, you just have to do or experience. It's a very broad and diverse field where no one knows it all.

"Not sure what area I want to get into. I'd eventually like to be a tool and die maker or something else that would make me think."

Are you working in a job shop right now ? Have you in the past ?

jon

"How long have you been enrolled in this machining class ?"

The course started the first week of September, so a little better than a month and a half.

"Hope your trying to do this as much as possible. The more hands on you can get with the schools machines, the easier it's going to be on you when your no longer in school."

Yeah, I'm trying to work ahead. One of the guys in my class offered to help me out with any of the things I can't figure out just from the book, but the book seems to be doing a pretty good job of explaining so far.

"Are you working with both knee mills and lathes right now"

Just working on the mills right now. Sometime after the middle of November we're switching and I'll be going to the lathes. We'll be doing CNC after Christmas and our instructors want us to have the basics of the mills and the lathes before that. I'll be going back to the mill later on to finish up the rest of the projects. We've got a couple of projects to do on the horizontal mills too.

"I see aerospace machining as a dead end job in Phoenix, Arizona."

Aerospace is a big thing here. I live in what used to be an old military base, and quite a few of the businesses out here are aerospace related. The school I go to has some aerospace programs and it's out here as well. Labour is cheaper here than in bigger places and the government had a part in attracting those businesses here as well. We've got Honeywell here too. Helipro and Atlantic Turbines, owned by Vector Aerospace. MDS Prad opened up here a while ago - I don't know much about them, but they do coatings for turbine engines or something. Wiebel Aerospace used to be out here, but they moved into town a couple of years ago. A couple of the companies out here seem to be slowing down, but yesterday we had a tour of the shop by another company that's considering opening up here. So... Not sure which way things are headed.

"I would like to broaden my skill base and build high performance engines and various components that are used on them. Perhaps 5 axis cylinder head work. I can see going into business for myself in the future doing high performance engine related work. I would never want to open my own machining job shop."

I think a couple of the guys in my class are interested in getting into custom cars and bikes eventually. I'm not even really sure that I'm planning on doing for sure. There's so many things that I never realized were related to machining. I couldn't handle the stress of opening a machine shop, although 20 years from now I'd love to have a little hobby shop of my own.

"It's a very broad and diverse field where no one knows it all."

I've met some who think they do... ;D

"Are you working in a job shop right now ? Have you in the past ?"

Not now, I stopped working before school started. I worked deburring in a machine shop that did aerospace work. That's what got me interested in becoming a machinist. Before I started there I didn't even know what a machine shop was. :)

chem

"but the book seems to be doing a pretty good job of explaining so far."

What is the machining text book your using ? Just a guess but would it be:

Machining Fundamentals by John R Walker ?

"Just working on the mills right now."

Have they shown you how to tram the head in yet ? What have you made so far ? Might be able to give you some ideas of things that I think are important to know and be able to do quickly with a knee mill.

"We've got a couple of projects to do on the horizontal mills too."

Can really save time over a knee mill for roughing material. Some job shops still keep them around even if they have CNC's.

"Aerospace is a big thing here."

If you think your going to go to work for an Aerospace job shop I can tailor some of my comments toward that.

"We've got Honeywell here too."

Honeywell big business in Phoenix is making Axillary Power Units (APU's). An APU is a turbine that provides electricity and takes care of things like the air conditioning, etc. From what I'm told the APU also is the starter for a planes propulsion turbines. Honeywell's growth was suppose to be in providing a new propulsion turbine called an AS900 to Bombardier . For whatever reasons this has not taken off yet.

"I think a couple of the guys in my class are interested in getting into custom cars and bikes eventually."

A few of my friends who I have worked with and who are burned out from working in aerospace job shops here have gone to work for Bourgett Bike Works. It's easy work. All aluminum. They are very nice to their employees.

"I've met some who think they do... ;D"

Unfortunately, you will meet plenty more.

I suddenly feel old. Very, very old. At least I've heard of The Beastie Boys and err... actually like them. ;>) As far as the hangover part on your website, looks like your gonna fit right in. LOL

jon

"I prefer to listen to Cheap Trick." Homer Simpson

Machine Tool and Manufacturing Technology by Steve F. Krar, Mario Rapisarda, and Albert F. Check, published by Delmar.

Tramming the head was the first thing we had to do. The instructors ran through it with us, then knocked it back out again and had us tram it on our own. I haven't made anything really exciting yet (I guess that's a lie - milling a piece square was plenty exciting to me). There's some pics at

and I took home another project today that I'll post some pics of tonight or tomorrow. It's half of a boring head. I'll be doing the other half of it on the lathe. Pretty neat little thing. It has dovetails, drilled, reamed and tapped holes (I did the tapping by hand though, not on the mill) and a gib. Today I started work on an aluminum church for my parents for Christmas. It's a project I came across in HSM, and I'm pretty excited about it. Friday is our day to do our own personal projects in the shop if we want.

Any little ideas that you have would be appreciated. There's only two instructors for 14 students, so they don't have a whole lot of time to spend with us to give us tips for doing things a better way and/or more quickly (although I've been suprised how much personal attention they're able to give us). And any ideas for handy tools I could make would be appreciated too. Our projects include a square, the boring head, a brass hammer, a set of v-blocks... And a few other things which escape me at the moment. Our first project was a holder for our dial indicator for tramming the head of the mill. My other personal project on the mill is a set of swivel blocks to use in a vice.

Today might have been a candidate for the horizontal mill. The main part of that church I mentioned above will have finished dimensions of

3" x 3.250" x 4.250" at its widest, tallest, and longest points (the steeple is made seperately and attached with a couple of pins). The biggest aluminum bar stock we have in the shop is 3" x 3". So... We started with a 6" round bar. Sawed off 4.5" because sometimes the saw makes crooked cuts, so we had to allow for that. That was ok though, because I got to use the lathe to face off the ends (with the instructor's help to set up). With the extra 250 thou of material, that took until lunch. After lunch we laid out a 4.25" square on one face of the piece and stuck it in the mill. Taking 100 thou cuts, it took me a couple of hours to take down one side of the bar to a 4.25" flat. By Christmas I should have a nice square paperweight for my folks! :D (j/k

- confident I'll be done of it by then. I've still got 6 Fridays of school before Christmas)

Not sure what I'm doing when I get out of school. Because of where I live though, chances are good that it will be aerospace. I think because of where our school is located, the course is geared towards graduating students who can comfortably go into aerospace.

Honeywell does fuel systems here.

Lol, if you like the Beastie Boys you can't be that old - not in spirit anyways. :D I don't make a habit of drinking, and that hangover was enough to turn me off it for quite a while. :P

chem

"Machine Tool and Manufacturing Technology by Steve F. Krar, Mario Rapisarda, and Albert F. Check, published by Delmar."

Okay. Very similar book to the one I mentioned. This helps to give me a good idea what they are teaching you and I can tailor my comments to that.

"Tramming the head was the first thing we had to do. The instructors ran through it with us, then knocked it back out again and had us tram it on our own."

IMO, I think it is very important to be able to check and tram the head *very quickly* in a small machining job shop. Very often you will have to share machines or use someone else's machine. The fact is that most knee mills use what I call a knuckle in their design. While this knuckle provides lots of versatility it is also a very weak point as far as the rigidity of a knee mill is concerned. It's extremely easy to knock the head out of tram with the table !

Also, very often on older knee mills if you move the knee up or down, the head will not be in alignment with the table at the new position you cranked the knee to ! If your doing a critical part you really will want to use the spindle travel rather than move the knee. If you must move the knee, depending on what operation your doing, it's very often a good idea to check if the head is still in alinement with the table.

Have they shown you how to set an angle or a compound angle by tilting the head of a knee mill yet ?

How about moving the Ram in and out ?

Will they be showing you how to use a rotary table ?

"It's half of a boring head. I'll be doing the other half of it on the lathe. Pretty neat little thing. It has dovetails, drilled, reamed and tapped holes (I did the tapping by hand though, not on the mill) and a gib."

What is the TPI on the lead screw that moves your boring head in and out?

"Any little ideas that you have would be appreciated."

I have a ton of them and they are based on what I did not know when I was taking machine / tool adult education in

1993 / 1994 and now know based on 10 years in what I like to call the real world of working in small U.S. machining job shops. What I don't want to do is overwhelm you by throwing too much stuff at you too soon. I also think it's a good idea if I keep my comments to manual machining rather than CNC machining at this point. Of course, if you feel you have a specific question on CNC I would be more than happy to try an answer it.

Does this approach seem like a good idea to you ?

"And any ideas for handy tools I could make would be appreciated too."

A lot of the things that you can make in school can save you money and are really needed and very frequently used when you go to work in a job shop. 1-2-3 blocks, (I have 4 pairs)

2-4-6 blocks, (I have 2 pairs) jack screws ( I have 3 of them), angle blocks, height stand (Not the design they have you make in school !), the V blocks you mentioned (various sizes), vise work stops, parallels, etc. The more time you can spend at the machine making stuff like this the better, IMO.

Now that you have found alt.machines.cnc (which IMO will benefit you even more than rec.crafts.metalworking because most of us here machine for a living and you will be doing it for a living all too soon) you have read what some others have said about horizontal milling.

When I typed what I typed about horizontal milling my thoughts were and still are on helping you to understand what a knee mill with a knuckle head joint is very, very weak at as well as what it is good at. A manual horizontal mill is much more rigid in it's design than a knee mill with a knuckle head joint. As a result of this *alone* it can "hog off" more material. As has been mentioned by others horizontal milling has other advantages, which at this point unless you want to, I don't feel is appropriate to go into. Further, some of the many advantages of horizontal milling have still not been mentioned, yet.

My comments to you are and will be based on augmenting what you doing in class right now. My comments are designed to help you get the most out of your class and how to apply it to what I have labeled above as the real world. IMO, this will benefit you the most. Others, as well as yourself, may disagree. :>) LOL

"Bikes aren't my thing, but - wow... :)"

Glad you liked it. Keep this in mind. Aerospace machining work is one of the best and most complete backgrounds one can have for doing many other types of work. After aerospace machining a lot of things can be downright easy to handle. Certainly, making aluminum Harley type chopper parts is one of them. Frankly, I would be bored out of my mind very, very quickly making aluminum parts for Roger's bikes. ;>)

"I don't make a habit of drinking, and that hangover was enough to turn me off it for quite a while. :P"

I never have this problem drinking a quality single malt scotch and making sure I don't mix drinks. It is quite an expensive way to go though if you favor a Scotch such as Glenfiddich like I do.

I have a lot of other questions that I would like to ask you about your very creative website but I will wait awhile and see if you find what I have typed helpful.

Hope your enjoying your weekend,

jon