Hobart welder update

As some may remember, I managed to scrounge up a big assed Hobart welder. CyberTig II 500 DCS.
The welder is tig/stick, but needs either a jumper Plug or a foot
pedal to run. I found a wiring diagram for another Hobart tig machine, so looking at the back side of the plug, determined that the wires all went to the same pins as the diagram, and took a chance.
After a quick trip to Radio shack and getting a 4.7k resistor and a 25k pot, I made up a breadboard based on the pedal diagram and plugged it in.
I flipped on the power switch, and voila! the various dials came to life showing volts (80) and amps. Taking a wild guess at what some of the knobs, thumbwheels and whatnot meant, I tweaked them to what appeared to be a conservative setting. I then hooked up a heavy pair of jumper cables to the machines stick lugs, and grounded the end to a piece of 2x2" thick wall square tubing, clamped a 1/8" piece of 7018 to the jumper cable and donning my mask, scratched.
YEEHAWWWWW!!!!! A marvelous arc formed and with a high pitched singing sound, I ran that rod. Beautiful weld. (not me...the machine).
I dont think Ive ever heard that kind of sound in an arc before. Almost sounded like very high freq, but the switch is in Stick and the HF is turned OFF.
Dinking around, I couldnt get the various settings to increase much more, so it dawned on me, that the pot on the bread board was likely set too low. Giving it a turn to the other stop, I again prepared to weld. This time I used a firm tap to start.
FLASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Holy F*CK!!!!!!!!! Big light! Way big light. Jaaaysus!
Removing my mask, I was rather bemused to find that the welding rod had not scratch started the arc, but simply BURNED its way though both sides of that 2x2" thick walled square tubing and was sticking out of both sides of the tube. There it was..a bent, smoking swizzel stick poking through both sides of that chunk of steel.
Checking the dials and gizzmos, I reckon I had it set a the full 699 amps the machine is supposed to be capable of, given the readings on the knobs and gauges and dials and thingabobs.
I think..Ill be a bit more conservative the next time I tweak that pot..and a manual would be of great help as well...gulp.
Well hell..I think I got myself a welder..... <VBG>
Anyone know where I might pick up a used foot pedal with an Amphenol 10 pin connector on it?
Or just a couple of Amp 10 pin connectors? This thing uses the screw on type, not the twist lock style.
Ive got a pedal, but I dont know if its any good, and it is wired to connect up to that Thermal Dynamics plasma torch control and Id rather not break up that set.
I need to make up a proper jumper plug for stick welding and Ill need to start scrounging Stuff to activate the TIG side of the welder. I already have a chiller, though dont know if it works yet.
Gunner
"The Democratic Party is the party of this popular corruption. The heart of the Democratic Party and its activist core is made up of government unions, government dependent professions (teachers, social workers, civil servants); special interest and special benefits groups (abortion rights, is a good example) that feed off the government trough; and ethnic constituencies, African Americans being the most prominent, who are disproportionately invested in government jobs and in programs that government provides.
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wrote:

politically feasible, and use that money to buy as many of the people's votes as possible'.

Uh, Gunner. . . May I respectfully suggest you go easy on the experimenting until you can get a manual on that thing? It sounds like you got some serious, major power there and experimenting might produce some pretty spectacular results.
That which does not kill us makes us stronger. --Friedrich Nietzsche
Never get your philosophy from some guy who ended up in the looney bin. -- Wiz Zumwalt
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On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:52:07 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@TAKEOUTmindspring.com wrote:

Read your sig. <G>
Besides..what about the thrill of experimentation and discovery?
Every little boy loves to make things go FLASH and Boom! Inside me resides the soul of a little boy. A twisted little bastard probably best wrapped in chains and stuffed into the basement, back in the coal bin.
But as I dont heal as well as I used to..Ill tone it down a bit. Sigh...
I think Im getting a better handle on it though..and Hobart/Miller wants $30USD for a manual..the wretches!
Gunner
"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather, because it is easier to harrass rich women than it is motorcycle gangs." - Bumper Sticker
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Try these people for the connector and/or a pedal. They have good prices on the connectors. I ordered one from Digikey before I found out about these people and it was $20 and they have a $25 minimum so I had to order a couple of other parts too. The same connector from SSC is $6.16. I don't think it includes the strain relief (it didn't from Digikey either!) so you'll need to order that too.
Best Regards, Keith Marshall snipped-for-privacy@progressivelogic.com
"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"

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Oops, forgot the link. :-)
http://www.ssccontrols.com/homepage-connectors.htm
Best Regards, Keith Marshall snipped-for-privacy@progressivelogic.com
"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"

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On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:46:36 GMT, "Keith Marshall"

Many thanks!!

"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather, because it is easier to harrass rich women than it is motorcycle gangs." - Bumper Sticker
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    If these are the small black plastic ones by AMP, I get mine from Mouser electronics. But aside from the strain relief, you also have to get the pins (two sizes of male, and two of female, for different sizes of wire), and a proper crimper. There are cheap ones (made by AMP) which can be used for field repairs. These include bolt cutters which preserve the threads. However, for serious work there are ratchet controlled crimpers (also by AMP) which crimp both the wire connection and the insulation strain relief at the same time. I've picked up mine from an eBay auction, once I knew what I was looking for. They have a sliding black plastic support which holds the pin while the crimp is being performed.
    These are not set up for solder termination, and the plastic of the connector body would melt if you tried to solder to a pin while it was in place -- if you could even reach it.
    Another tool is a double ended tool for inserting the crimped pin into the connector body, and for removing it should you need to do so. It is quite inexpensive, and well worth while buying when you get the rest of the stuff.
    Note that these same crimpers, pins, and insertion/removal tools also work with the DB-25 connectors for RS-232 connections, if you need to do those, too.
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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wrote:

I've been trying to find the time to go out and pull the drawer on my Hobart so I could remember which pins that need to be connected.
Anyway if you've worked out the dummy plug you should be able to figure them out.
I gave up on the dummy plug on my welder. I got tired of always changing plugs every time I needed the foot pedal. So I just added a switch to the panel which shorts the two pins needed to turn the welder on.
I'm not sure where you found the schematic for the dummy plug but it may of been the one I came up with several years ago (I've also been looking for that but it's lost in the mess around here). I added the resistor since that was the way the pedal worked but it's not needed if there's a remote switch on the panel. That bypasses the resistor.
If you could get a better pic of the front of the welder where I can read the lettering I could tell you what everything does. I'm pretty sure that your welder is just a more modern equivalent of mine.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook
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wrote:

I make out the labeling of the knobs and they're laid out slightly different from mine so I'm not sure which is which.
I guess the easiest way would be to get me a list of the control labels and I can tell you what each does.

Ok. That's the foot pedal schematic. If you'll put a toggle switch on the A, and B terminals listed on that schematic then you won't need a dummy plug.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook
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wrote:

Some where there's a switch (or should be) that should have the name remote in the label. If you switch that off you then go to the internal amperage controls.
This is to allow you to use the foot pedal just for on and off while leaving the machine set to a steady amperage.
Even blown up in a pic program I can't really make out the lettering in your pic of the face. I don't see a switch that looks like it would do the above but I find it hard to believe that they didn't put it on there. Looking at the face I have to say that it's definitely the same but a newer model control drawer that mine has.
Here's a link to a pic of my control panel.
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2001_retired_files/Cybertig2.jpg
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook
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wrote:

Ok. Well that easy enough to get around. Use a dual pole switch with one pole switching the AB set and another with the right sized resistor inline to switch the other two pins. Looks like FK have a resistor across them.
When I wired my dummy plug I put a resistor across the DF terminals since the foot pedal pot would make that connection not matter what. Come to think of it those pins will have the resistance across them now since I leave my foot pedal connected all the time now. But the remote switch takes care of moving the current control and the other resistances can come from the pedal even when I'm not using it.

Ok.

This is for a welding sequence. Notice that there's a weld time dial down there as well. What happens is you can set it up to go through the whole sequence from the Prepurge, Hot Start, Initial Current, Slope (up or down), then welding current (including pulse if you want) for the set time, then it'll slope (up or down again) to final current, and finally do the post purge. There are controls for the length of both slopes as well. On mine the start button really doesn't seem to do anything. It's actually the switch on the pedal remote which will start the sequence. If I have that on all the time then the start button will just reset and start the sequence all over. The down slope button will allow you to start the down slope before the time is up on the weld time dial. The emergency stop does just that of course.
The Manual/auto switch turns the weld time on and off basically. In manual you tell the machine when to turn off. In auto the machine will go through the whole sequence.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook
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    [ ... ]

    Terrible URL -- with six spaces in the filename (showing as %20 here) which I had to change to '_' to keep my system happy.
    Oops! Not the connector which I was thinking of. I was thinking of AMP connectors, and this is Amphenol, instead. The photo still looks like plastic, but everything else looks like the MIL series connectors which used to have an OD coating, not black.
    Write off what I said about the crimpers and crimp pins. (Though this connector *may* have crimp pins, they will be significantly larger than the ones which I was thinking about.) Same for the insertion/extraction tool -- wrong size, so yours may be reasonable at the price you quoted.
    And, I've checked what connectors I have, and I have 8-pin and 9-pin, not any 10-pin ones.
    I *do* have some 10-pin MIL ones, but they have the pattern of pins rotated 90 degrees CCW, so the pin shown as 'G' in that drawing is adjacent to the key (and it is labeled 'A' in mine.)
    And anyway, mine also are part of the upgrade to the milling machine -- the power and tach feedback to the axis servo motors. No spares there, either. (And those cost me a *lot* too much, new.) I've watched for spares at hamfests, and not had any luck, so far.
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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    [ ... ]

    [ ... ]

    Good enough.

    That should work -- though you have to be careful to not have too much solder, or the removal tool may not work.

    Ouch! I seem to remember paying about $5.00-6.00 each for mine -- sometimes even less at hamfests. I have picked up several over time to always have one ready to hand.

    What is the diameter of the connector? If the threaded part is something like perhaps 5/8", then it is of the series which I know, and the part number on the insertion/removal tool is:
    Red (insertion):    91067-2     White (removal):    M81969/1-02
(just to let you see whether it is the same as yours).
    The *good* crimper is the AMP 90312-1, with two sets of die locations. One for 28-24 Ga. wire (blue dot on the pins), and the other for 24-20 Ga. wire (red dot on the pins).
    Ebay auction #3849532806 has a similar one, except only for 24-26 Ga. wire. The photo is rather poor, so I can't tell for sure whether it has two sizes of crimp die in it, but at a starting price of $1.99 (with 1 day 10 hours to go) it is certainly worth a try.
    Note that while you can do the semi-crimp and solder technique you mention, the *real* crimper does a better job -- especially if the connector is subjected to vibration. Solder tends to wick up the wire until it reaches the end of the insulation, so vibration bends the much more rigid assembly, instead of several individual strands, and it breaks a lot sooner.
    Also -- the crimper alone is a lot quicker than needle-nose crimp followed by soldering.
    There are two styles of the pins, (aside from the male/female choice and the wire gauge choice). One, sold for use with the cheap "field" crimping tool, has only a single "flag" on each side of the wire to crimp down to make the connection. The other type, sold for crimpers such as I have found up above on eBay, has two "flags" on each side of the wire. The one closer to the pin (or socket) itself crimps down onto the wire, in a shape like this:
    /) \)
with the ends being curled back to dig into the wire. The second pair of flags crimps into a circle, to support the wires insulation, thus providing even better vibration protection.
    Good Luck,         DoN.
P.S.    I do have some of the connectors, but they are getting wired     into a project (new CNC controller for my Bridgeport). Mouser     is a good supplier -- quick shipping, and I've never hit a     minimum in ordering from them.
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Gunner wrote:

You might want to consider a torch mounted, thumb actuated slider for TIG. I know this is somewhat controversial but I sure like mine much better than a foot pedal. If you don't want to buy one (CK make one), a slide type pot and a little work I know you can do would make a unit.
BTW, I think once you really get into TIG, you will do very little stick welding. There are only about two reasons I ever use stick: Gotta weld something I can't bring into the shop. Get the urge to use up some of 100 or so pounds of stick rods I got from Boeing surplus for $0.50/lb. :-)
Ted
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I am sure you can get the right connectors from <http://www.connectorworldsupply.com They are located in Seattle and are the place where Central Welding buys connectors. Dan

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