How to explain evaporative cooling to idiots?

We're in Phoenix, it's been up to 118 degrees in the last week but the humidity is up a little due to monsoon season. Anyway, I am trying to figure out a way to explain to these dipshit$
how evaporative cooling works (we just moved over from San Diego last year). The one moron closes up everything because he wants to keep the cool air inside but it gets like a sauna in here. I keep trying to make them understand that evap requires a constant change/flow of air and that closing everything up stops that flow and concentrates the moisture in the air. They will have none of it. With the extra humidity it gets miserable in here, humidity starts in the high 30% and drops to mid teens during the day except when the showers start to close in. I know evap is not good in humidity but it's all we got in the shop which is why I spend most of my day in my office where it's airconditioned. Let the unwashed (un-cooled, ignorant) masses suffer if they won't listen.
JohnF
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The local Grainger has a big swamp cooler running as a demo just outside their building. They have sold a bunch of them just so the boss can get his MRO guys back to the shop after a parts run. :-) Here in South Georgia the humidity is close to 80% but that thing still drops the temperature a good 15 degrees. With 30% humidity it would probably freeze your shop.
Considering that a gallon of water absorbs almost 6,000 BTUs of heat as it evaporates a swamp cooler is cheap air conditioning as long as the shop humidity doesn't get to high.
--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
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If you change the discussion to dew point temp, it's a LOT easier. Of course you have to define dew point and get folks to ignore humidity, a tall order. Since the DP doesn't cahnge with temp (like humidity), you can see what's going on.
Goes like this:
Your normal dewpoint in desert Pheonix runs in the 40's F in the hot dry summer. Your body is at 98.6F, puts out some sweat, sweat evaporates nicely due to the 50 degree difference, you get cool. A swamp cooler does the same thing, evaporates some water which drops the temp and raises the dewpoint.
The trouble comes when you get higher dewpoints. Most people think DP in the 40's as 'dry', 50's as 'comfortable', 60's as 'humid', 70's as 'sultry (soggy?), and 80's as unbearable. I hust looked at Pheonix stats: 95F and 61F dewpoint at 7:00AM If you run a swamp cooler, it bring the temp down 15 degrees or so but will add another 10 degrees to the dewpoint. Moves the body reaction into the really soggy feeling.
In your case, closing it up just keeps the moisture in the room to make everyone feel lousy but you only get one chance for it to evaporate and keep folks cool.
JohnF wrote:

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John: I can't be any help on the subject of explaining evaporation. However I can offer solid advice on working with idiots. Don't fall into the trap of caring about something more than they do. If you do, then you become the idiot. -Mike
JohnF wrote:

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I know but it's hard to let go.
JohnF
wrote:

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Well, "I'm cool because evaporating the water cools the air, let me know if you want help; buy me beer and I'll get you set up."
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Rules to live by #37 (or something like that...):
Never argue with an idiot. Folks might lose track of which is which.
Jerry
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On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:51:55 GMT, the renowned JohnF

Well if it's hot and you're moving around and sweaty, do you feel cooler with a rainproof jacket on, or with a thin cotton T-shirt?
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
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JohnF wrote:

Put a drop of rubbing alcohol on their forearm. Ask them if if got cold. That's how evap cooling works except with water.
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HI,
    First point out that the swamp cooler has a fan, which can only move air if there is somewhere for the air to go. Suggest a two stage experiment, and promise to shut up if your are wrong. First a very quick test, feel the air flow with the shop buttoned up and with the it open. Next suggest a real test, that is two see if the shop is cooler with it opened up
    Trying to keep the cool air in sounds like a good idea, but this "cool" air quickly heats up because of the hot walls, roof, and floor. The air is just a fluid coolant, once it has absorbed some heat it is time to move it out. In a car one does not pump cool coolant into the engine without an outlet for the fluid, instead it is recycled back to the radiator. In the shop, the now hot moist air cannot be recycled through the swamp cooler because it is moist to evaporate much more water.
Sincerely Roger Haar Tucson
JohnF wrote:

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JohnF wrote:

Stick them in a hot closet with a fan and close the door. Ask them if they feel cooler in there or outdoors when there's a breeze.
Stan
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They are bright compared to the idiots I ran into one time. I was in an antique shop on a hot summer day. They had just purchased a new window refer. type unit and had not had time to install it in the window. So they had it sitting on a table with the window closed running. They couldn't understand that all they had was 1600 to 2000 watt heater going.
Chuck P.
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My tin roof over the factory in Tijuana provided an insufferable heat during the summer when I took over as plant manager. I quickly changed intolerable to very comfortable by putting some sprinklers on top of the roof and turning them on during hottest periods of the day. Also at night ran exhaust fans full blast until mid morning then shut them down to low speed while adding some swamp coolers. One hundred and eighty people wanted to hug me and I got a lot of free tacos! (not to mention a boost in productivity that quickly paid for the changes).
Wayne

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We had a weld shop doing smaller parts that was air conditioned. By 4:00 PM on a 95 degree day the AC just wasn't keeping up, the temp had crept up to 78 degrees. One new guy was complaining. A couple of the older guys took him aside and explained that most weld shops have NO A/C and they didn't want to hear any more about it.
We did notice that second shift had to keep adjusting their welders on second shift during hot weather. Adjusting things to compenste for the voltage sag on the start of the shift caused too hot welds by the end of the shift when the voltage came back up.
Wayne Lundberg wrote:

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the
last
the
air
to
Tell him to blow on his arm and see how cold it gets. Now pour water on his arm and repeat the blowing.
Easy ! (perhaps then you can talk about laten heat of vaporisation of water)
AWEM
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The swamp box is blowing cool air into the building. This air is cooler than the air already in the building. Have the idiot(s) measure the temp the incoming air and the shop air away from the incoming air stream. Now if no air is allowed to escape from the shop then no air can enter either. Even the dumbest asshole should be able to figure it out from here.
Art

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Art, There are 6.5 billion people on the planet, by my personal estimate at least 6.0 billion of those are stupid with 0% common sense. And as Ron White so aptly put it, 'You can't fix stupid'.
--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
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You are greatly underestimating the magnitude of the problem. I think it was George Carlin(?) who put so aptly. "People are stupid. Individuals, however, *may* be intelligent."
Art

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They 'might' have the right idea, but only if they (you) shut down the swamp coolers and provide an alternate method of circulating the internal air when they close the windows. Of course, if the inside ambient temperature rises above the outdoor temp, then it's definitely time to open some windows. The moving air is what evaporates the moisture from one's skin and gives a feeling of comfort. Personally, I think swamp coolers suck once humidity is over about 20 %.
For example, even at 116 degrees F., it's reasonably comfortable outside (in shade) if a good breeze is going. Isn't it amazing how much 10-15 mph breeze will cool you down? I guess outside, it actually envelopes your whole body?????
But good luck in your quandary, Ace

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Have the DS put a coat on and stand in the sun. Sun won't touch them, but will cook them inside their coat.
Now take a wet towel and wet hair - walk outside where air moves and their head will get cold from rapid evap.
Swap coolers in a closed house will melt the glue in the wood - all dressers, all couches....... as most glue is water types. When open to the outside and allowing air flow - the moisture dissipates (thus cooling).
The act of water evaporating off the body - that started somewhere like a swamp cooler is what chills.
Think - mist drip lines - the misters chill out those under them - outdoors!
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member http://lufkinced.com /
JohnF wrote:

-
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