Don't kid yourself! After 24 years of experience in commercial high rise const. If one head goes off the pressure surge will almost always set off other heads in that general area. Electronic areas should be isolated with a halogene (sp) system.
Tbone
There are (at least) two types of sprinkler systems.
The normal home / cheap residential style is as Gunner describes - simple municipal water pressure, the heads go off individually as exposed to heat.
The commercial / high rise type has a pressure drop sensor and a booster pump, it is designed to detect the drop of a single (wet or dry) head opening in a zone, after which it blasts the entire zone open with a pressure surge. The control system alone costs as much as a condo, so don't expect to find that type in a home shop.
Bob
Hummm ok. I only had 15 yrs in the business, in single or double floor buildings and only had one case of possible sympathic release. Shrug.
I did a lot of computer rooms with Halon release systems. Then did a libaray with power shutdown and water release. Interesting project.
Btw..did Grinell ever get all those defective heads replaced? What was the final count..around 35 million heads?
Gunner
"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"
Yup.
Gunner
"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"
It is not just OSHA. It is plain good sense. 200 psi is not a lot of safety margin for a 120 psi system and the failure mode is a lot more destructive than copper or iron pipe.
Besides, sometime > Well I've used it 3/4" and 8 outlets for 15yrs in my shop and no
--I think you mean "Halon". Horrible stuff.
Horrible, how?
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
Halon is hardly horrible stuff. Its a CFC (NOOOOOOOOO!!) that has had significant use in fire systems. Its a heavier than air gas, that displaces the oxygen in the room that its dumped into. IRRC it is nontoxic, but as it indeed does displace the oxygen, its greatest risk is suffocation.
It was very commonly used in computer centers, and other electrical areas that need fire suppression instantly, with no associated thermal shock as caused by CO2 and other gases. It worked very very well with no/few problems. Supression systems were developed that gave lots of pre warning before a dump, multiple levels of fire detection before dumping, over rides etc etc etc. Very safe technology and very mature. Many fire extinguishers were also made, often found in aircraft etc.
It was banned due to its being a CFC, and the price went from only a few dollars a pound to well over $150 when I checked a couple years ago.
"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"
The only reason I ask, is that I inherited a small halon extinguisher (IIRC about a 5lb unit) that I put in our kitchen. I figured that halon would be the best for a kitchen, where dry powder would make a real mess.
But if there were health issues with it (a small handheld, not in a confined space) I would want to know about it.
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
I don't know about sites outside of Canada, but I doubt very much that Halon systems have been acceptable to the EPA in the last twenty years Gerry :-)} London, Canada
I can't find an absolutely reliable cite, but this one matches what vendors told me in the early '80s when I was involved in designing computer rooms
We still use fixed halon systems on some of our Coast Guard small boats (for example 41' UTB's:
I keep a 5# CO2 extinguisher in the kitchen, the thermal shock isn't a big problem for that use. The Halon is reserved for near the computers. As I type this, I look up and see an Amerex #352 2 .5# Halon 1211, ready to keep the hard drive salvageable if the power supply goes out in a blaze of glory.
(Murphy's Law: Backups are never recent enough, and the one critical file you REALLY need back didn't copy properly anyways.)
And I have a 2.5# Halon in my cars, mounted under the edge of the driver's seat - right next to a 2.5# Dry Chemical under the passenger seat (and one or two 10# ABC units in the trunk/rear area) so I have a choice of which tool to use for the situation...
If it's /my/ car burning (and especially if someone's trapped inside at the time), I can choose to use the expensive Halon. If it's someone else's car, I'll use the Dry Chemical first - unless they're trapped inside the car, since it really isn't nice to blast off a Dry Chemical extinguisher in anyone's face (screw the cost).
No particular health issues involved, other than the real possibility of suffocation from oxygen deprivation if you stay in the room and the Halon concentration is high enough. And the other hazard to life & health is the chemicals released by the fire itself before you got it put out, that's a real witch's brew of some decidedly nasty stuff.
You put out the fire with the Halon, and then get everyone the heck out of the room for a while, drag them out if you have to. And be sure to close all the doors as you leave - you /want/ the gas concentration in the fire room to stay high enough to inhibit the fire from starting back up again. Halon works by chemically breaking the fire triangle...
After everything that was once burning cools down below the ignition point, you must open up the room and air it out with fans before you can safely occupy it again.
Oh, and a VERY important note: Go get that Halon extinguisher you, um, "inherited"... serviced by a professional shop at least every 6 years, even if you've never used it - they have found that the O-ring seals on the discharge nozzle crack from age and leak out the charge, so you need to get them replaced before your precious (and expensive) gas escapes. "Save the Ozone Layer" and all that bilge... ;-)
Since the cylinders are due for a Hydro-Test every 12 years, they can do them both at once every other service. (They just have another punch-out spot on the Hydro-Test sticker that says "6-Year Halon Maintenance")
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The small ones were sold for kitchens - we have one.
The displacement issue was simply that computer and raised floor test rooms used it to displace oxygen and blanket fire beneath the floor (if there) and to smother the room without freezing the computers to death. Otherwise CO2 Cardox could be dumped. CO2 was typically used in paint booths - paint houses and such.
The small amount we have in these canisters won't bother anyone. A bathroom is plenty large enough. We are talking about hundreds of gallons for a living room size computer room.
If CO2 dump - there were warning blasts on the first 1000 gal dump - then in the paint house if you were not out in 3 seconds (yea right) - then 5000 gal is dumped and everything is frozen. It was a nervous tour as a 21 year old in a summer job at the G.M. plant in Arlington. Made fantastic money but was glad to be out. (Made more that summer than the regular job in the next year).
Martin
Absolutely. I'm building a shop next fall so this is really good timing.
I'm at 32 x 48 split in half to make two 32 x 24 foot shops - one for wood, one for metal. I do have a 16' x 48' concrete slab on one side of it, 6" thick, 18" edge footings, so I can do all my welding outside. It its raining, I'll weld another day. I'll be retired, Nothing Is Urgent.
I ended up with garage doors (one in each shop) 10' wide x 8' tall (the shop has a 10' ceiling).
I was showing an inch drop - that is probably a mistake. I'll adjust the drawing.
Concrete.
Yup. That's the plan.
Mine will be also - 2 acre minimum lot size.
I have the shop turned so that it's back is to the street. The garage doors open on the house side of the shop - the house doesn't face the road either.
Yup - 6" walls, 6 mil poly under the slab, 8" raised plate to keep the moisture out.
Good point. My shop looks like the house, and it will have its own heating and air conditioning (geothermal heat pump), and it could be converted to a pair of guest apartments or Mother-In-Law quarters if one wanted to do that.
Fitch
Yup. As I said..I used to do that professionally I still carry my California C7/C10 contractors licenses, though its on "inactive"
Gunner
"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"
As far as I know..there still hasnt been a Holy Grail replacement yet that works as well as Halon, though they have been looking for a very long time.
Gunner
"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"
Great! I'd spray myself or you down if we were on fire. with CO2 I'd jump into the sea. Ever see what CO2 does to a rubber ball - shatters it.
Also aboard ship, as in those, rollovers might inject water into compartments and freezing water from CO2 might do as much damage as the fire.
A cousin of mine was a Loran Radioman - His station was mid pacific. His island was smaller than the 110 WPB you mention. Just coral heads with sand. We met him one day when the 'fleet' was in and brought him food and swapped partial crew and gave all a day off on our island - 1.5 miles long, 500 yards wide and 6 ft. (yes ~2M) tall at the highest. We fed him after we looked him up - better than the local food hall.
Best Regards, Martin
Well I had friend, for over twenty years, that drank booze like a fish, and drove like he was going to a fire, sober or drunk. That finally caught up with him too. He is no danger to anyone anymore, six feet under. Thankfully when his time came he took out only himself! A gent I work with had PVC in a shop for years to, untill it blew up on him. He was fairly lucky, only one small cut on his face from PVC shrapnel. Greg
Isn't Halon what they used in the Bradley Fighting Vehicle when they discovered the fire hazard from the hydrolic system taking a round in combat?
Tb>>
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