The owner, prior to the auction (which never happened). His version of a lot number. Cleaned off pretty well with some anti-grafiti spray paint remover.
Gunner
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
Yeah, it was about that long ago, I guess, that we talked about it. (I was under the name "Pete Somebody" back then.) Anyway I got my shaper about that time: saw it on ebay, got Pete Albrecht to look at the auction listing & give me his opinion. I bought it and haven't been sorry. I know shapers are obsolete and all, but they're such a kick to use. The machine itself is as interesting as the engines I make with it. (See the shaper section of my website.)
It was especially useful because my mill was such crap. Now I have no mill at all, and that's worse....
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
From a commercial standpoint, shapers can't win because they use a single point bit. A mill, using a multipoint cutter, can remove metal a LOT faster, while at the same time being a more versatile machine. A mill can do weird shapes, pockets and whatnot, that a shaper can't. There are some things a shaper can do that a mill can't, like internal splines & keyways, but in industry that hasn't been enough to save them from the scrap heap.
In terms of accuracy, apparently the mill is superior. It doesn't look like it, but that's what I've been told by reliable people. The shaper can leave a much prettier finish, while still not making the surface as flat as a mill can.
BUT: for a guy in his garage, the shaper has some real selling points. Maybe an ace modern mill (what do they cost?) can make a flatter surface, but it's being compared to an old, beat shaper (since there are no new ones). What I discovered is that a shaper THAT I CAN AFFORD makes a flatter surface than a mill THAT I CAN AFFORD.
Also, there's tooling. Milling cutters are not cheap to get or to have sharpened. The shaper uses, basically, a lathe bit. You buy it for not much, grind it yourself, and when it gets dull, grind that sucker again. It's a very cheap machine to run. (There are a couple of sections on shaper tool bits on my website.)
If you don't have either, get a good mill first; but thereafter, if you find one, a shaper can be a great addition to your shop. Little ones cost more than big ones. Supply and demand: HSMs want the little ones, but nobody at all wants the big 'uns, and everything's priced accordingly.
_Almost_ nobody wants the big ones. I do, though. All in good time.
One also might mention in cutting dovetails for example..a new dovetail cutter may well cost as much as an entire shaper.
Gunner
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
Seen the dovetail section on my website? ;-) I did that as an experiment, but it was a lot of fun and the result was pretty. Unfortunately, when it came time to do the dovetails on the new cross slide for my lathe, the shaper was juuust a little bit too small. I had to do that job on the POS milldrill. Owell.
Thats why I borrowed the 36" Smith-Hall. I was making a dovetail/slide 2' long for a custom feed attachment that went under a horizontal mill cutter and was air/oil powered. The customer/friend wanted to be able to fixture up 20 round parts and slot/groove square em fast. With stacked cutters, he does all 20 in about 1.5 minutes now. Even faster than on the latest hip slick and cool CNC mill.
It was fun actually and getting the gib right was a challenge (translated..took me 3 trys to get the gib angle proper...)
Gunner
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
1) Now that I've read all of the posts I'm going to start shopping and when I find something I'll post back to get some input.
2) Because of all the posts I now want a mill and a Lathe.
3) THANKS, I think. somehow now wanting two machines is going to cost me more. Any chance that some of the tooling is interchangeable?
Not likely. If you were to get a minimill and a small lathe, it's possible they could both have an MT3 pindle taper. That would really only be useful if you do some milling on the lathe. In all but a few cases, your mill will be the better choice for milling (duh).
But don't let that influence your purchase, because it's seldom an issue. Mill tooling works with mills, lathe tooling with lathes, with little crossover.
Since I have a 5C collet setup for my lathe, and (someday) will get the Hardinge TM running, plus the Hardinge dividing head, I can use 5C collets a lot. Otherwise, drill bits as noted by Gunner, and measurment / layout tools, which will represent a sizeable investment as you head down this trail.
I've used a Myford Super 7. I own a Colchester Chipmaster. The Colchester is a better machine and a more capable machine than the Myford in every respect that I can think of, except (maybe) accuracy when new, as they were both damn fine. However, you aren't gonna fit
1.375" dia 4140 bar into a Myford headstock and you aren't gonna rough it down taking .100 deep cuts either. Also, IIRC, the Myford doesn't go from 35 to 3000 rpm and it certainly isn't variable speed. A nice machine, a well made machine, an accurate machine, but compared to a Colchester, a hobbyist toy.
There are many lathes that will outcut a myford, and all of them weigh 5 times as much, so I don't feel like you are comparing apples to apples. A myford is small enough that two people can carry it into a basement and it can do some serious work. For its size, it is an outstanding machine. Its capabilities for its size is what made it famous. Yes, there are better machines but not in the 200 lb class.
The myford is probably best described as a hobbiest machine. BUT I am a hobbiest!
OK, compare it to an Emco Maximat 11, which I also own but rarely use. The Emco eats the Myford and 2 people can (just) move one. The Myford is the English equivalent to a South Bend. Nice design for a pre-WW2 machine, sold these days at a ridiculous price compared with what else is on offer.
If you're going to limit lathes to what 2 people can lift as a basis for comparison, sorry, not interested. That's never been one of my criteria.
When the movers 'packed' my Sheldon 11-44, (ways are 44" under headstock to under tail stock.) it took three of them to lift the Head end high enough for me to shove a piano 4 wheeler under it. The tail stock end I can lift. I guess the detail is in the gears :-)
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