Lead (Pb) price continues to skyrocket



38 years of casting lead bullets, loading, and shooting and I'm still here. Something else is going to kill me first.
Wes
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I had a blood lead check a couple years ago. It barely registered on the results.
Gunner, bullet caster and shooter
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After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned
13:57:12 -0700 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

    If you die of lead poisoning, it will the sort caused by an irate husband or a scorned woman.
tschus pyotr
-- pyotr filipivich "Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. " Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 45 AD (A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.)
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On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:29:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich

True enough <G>
Gunner
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Not the point, though. The chinese know that we don't allow lead in our toys and toothpaste, and they use it in products exported to us anyway. They've killed our pets by poisoning wheat gluten, by contaminating it with chemicals to make it test higher in a primitive protein test. We've gone well past the point of them trading in good faith, and at this point, they're exploiting the "most favored trade nation status" that clinton gave them in exchange for those campaign contributions.
I think it's time we revoke the special deals that clinton gave the chinese. And I _really_ think that, instead of just saying "wups, sorry about that" and recalling the items they get caught on, the American companies who import this tainted crap should get fined into oblivion.
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Dave Hinz wrote:

Read a book " The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair about the US meat industry at the turn of the last century. Probably similar to where China is today. You think that the food you eat that is processed by us companys is all that good. They put a lot of crap in it that is harmful to you but the crap hasn't been put on the banned list yet.
The Chinese government is trying to control the safety of its exports, just like george bush is trying to control the illegal aliens. If either really crack down and do the proper controls, there will be hell to pay.
John
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http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?IDr29
Of Meat and Myth
John wrote:

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Louis Ohland wrote:

As popular myth would have it, there were no government inspectors before Congress acted in response to "The Jungle" and the greedy meat packers fought federal inspection all the way. The truth is that not only did government inspection exist, but meat packers themselves supported it and were in the forefront of the effort to extend it!
When the sensational accusations of "The Jungle" became worldwide news, foreign purchases of American meat were cut in half and the meatpackers looked for new regulations to give their markets a calming sense of security. The only congressional hearings on what ultimately became the Meat Inspection Act of 1906 were held by Congressman James Wadsworth's Agriculture Committee between June 6 and 11. A careful reading of the deliberations of the Wadsworth committee and the subsequent floor debate leads inexorably to one conclusion: Knowing that a new law would allay public fears fanned by "The Jungle," bring smaller competitors under regulation, and put a newly laundered government stamp of approval on their products, the major meat packers strongly endorsed the proposed act and only quibbled over who should pay for it.
In the end, Americans got a new federal meat inspection law. The big packers got the taxpayers to pick up the entire $3 million price tag for its implementation as well as new regulations on their smaller competitors, and another myth entered the annals of anti-market dogma.
To his credit, Upton Sinclair actually opposed the law because he saw it for what it really was a boon for the big meat packers.10 Far from a crusading and objective truth-seeker, Sinclair was a fool and a sucker who ended up being used by the very industry he hated.
Myths die hard. What you've just read is not at all "politically correct." But defending the market from historical attack begins with explaining what really happened. Those who persist in the shallow claim that "The Jungle" stands as a compelling indictment of the market should clean up their act because upon inspection, there seems to be an unpleasant odor hovering over it.

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So the accusations about the US meat packing industry being a dirty, sickeningly filthy unregulated business were all untrue? It was a model of modern, clean, sanitary production facilities for producing quality food for human consumption? Yeah, and I have a bridge I would like to sell you. How many times do we have to see what unregulated business does when there are no inspectors? In my town we have a "plume of contaminated aquifer running through the middle of town from where dry cleaning companies dumped toxic chemicals in the ground and sewers. We have an area where the old Diamond Match Company used to produce matches and did the same thing to the ground, and we have a dump that has to be completely dug up and processed because of toxics left there from unregulated dumping. That is just in my dinky town. Multiply that by thousands and you know what happens when nobody is watching what businesses are doing. Any place business is left unregulated the story is always the same. They pollute like crazy, leave their business sites in shambles and disappear when it's time to pay for it. It's gotten worse since Bush took over and allowed and fostered an old fashioned leave business to regulate itself attitude. Reducing the consumer product safety agency from 1,100 to 400 is a good example. Leave business to police itself and we pay the price.
Hawke
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Hawke wrote:

Somehow, this just doesn't surprise me..
John
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On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:35:57 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,

Yes, that explains quite a lot, doesn't it?
-- Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives. -- A. Sachs
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A certain, large, chunk of all commodities prices going up is because the value of the dollar is going down.
There are also factors of increased demand for limited resources (especially in the case of copper but also for other common metals) and everything mineral-agro-industrial is strongly tied to fuel/energy prices too.
Tim.
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On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:55:50 -0500, Richard J Kinch

Ditto copper -- as in brass. Ammo prices have risen accordingly. Mr. Paulsen at Wells Fargo says there's no reason to think this rise in commodity prices won't continue for a while.
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The value of these pundits' opinion is slightly below zero.
I never pay attention to what they are saying.
My only commodity experience was buying silver and selling it several years later for 2x.
i
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On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:05:00 -0500, Ignoramus31535

Dr. Paulsen's track record is rather good.

Then of course their opinions would have no value for you.

Shoulda gone with lead or copper! Greater return in shorter time.
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He may be different from others.

Maybe I should sell my 50 lbs or remelted bullets. Bought a bucket of bullet fragments from a gun range a few years ago. Spent some good time melting them. Doubtful I will use them much, at least not as much as I have.
i
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Ignoramus31535 wrote:

That reminds me, I got a counterweight from a #5 cinci vertical mill outside in the back that we scrapped a while ago. The thing must weigh over 500 lbs. Add that to the 36 volt forklift battery back there and I have a small fortune in lead. :)
John
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wrote:

don't

I can understand the price of brass and lead going through the roof. They are going through unreal amounts of ammunition in Iraq. The ammo producers are having a hard time keeping up. I tried to buy 2000 .38 caliber lead bullets from my regular supplier last month and they didn't have any, haven't had any for a long time, and don't know when they will get more. They blamed it on the war, which is probably right. I have seen the price for .45 ACP lead bullets go up just about every time I reorder. A year or so ago I was paying something like four or five cents a bullet. I just got a 1000 bullets last week and it cost me 90 bucks. It's getting to the point where I am going to have to start casting bullets again. I go through a lot of lead and the price is getting so high that casting is starting to become a reality again. But it's so boring and time consuming I hate to have to start doing it again.
Hawke
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OSB prices went nuts after start of the war and are back to normal or at least close to it.
Casting lead isn't that boring. Since you apparently reload already you have some tolerance for repeated manual opperations. For pistol work cast lead works just fine. I tend to watch tv (cspan) while casting so it isn't totally dead time.
I gotta rebuild my 50 yard backstop next year. I made it out of 4' x 4' panels of scrap osb from work a few years ago built into a box filled with sand. The OSB has failed on one side. I'm going to use pressure treated this time and it think it is time to sift the sand that fills it to get my lead back.
Cast is good stuff for many applications. http://www.castbulletassoc.org/
If you are sold on jacketed, have you considerd swaging aka corbin?
Wes
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wrote:

producers

so

lot

become

have

I'm not sold on jacked at all. In fact, I shoot almost exclusively lead. Up until recently lead bullets were reasonably priced and allowed me to shoot my customary 300 rounds a week pretty inexpensively. Now it's getting way too expensive. Like I said, I don't relish casting over a thousand lead bullets a month. But what's worse than the casting is the lube/sizing that has to be done too. That really makes it a time consuming pain in the ass. But with .45 caliber bullets going to .09 a piece I may start up again. One good thing is that my supplier for .357 hollow base wadcutters has some in stock, not the 2000 I wanted but he has a few 500 piece bags and they still go for around a nickel each. That's more like it. I guess I'll have to hope for a recession so commodities will be in less demand and prices will come down. Looks like you get a bad deal either way. Prices only go in one direction...up. I sure wish they would stop printing so much money. It's getting to be worthless. I bought a loaf of rye bread today. It was $3.27. The money is getting worth less and less every day.
Hawke
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