Lead (Pb) price continues to skyrocket



Funny you should mention that...
<TOO MUCH INFORMATION>
The place:- BALCO power station, India.
The problems:- Bog paper is in short supply and very expensive and the screaming shits are a regular occurrence.
The coincidence:-A large crate containing all our performance test equipment for two Turbine performance tests had sat at Calcutta in the monsoon after being opened by customs for inspection... 50lbs of HP Thinkjet printer paper gone wrinkly due to getting wet.
The solution:- HP Thinkjet printer paper, when cut into half sheets and well crumpled, makes excellent bog paper. Very strong. Quite soft and _much_ better than nothing!
We did try photocopier paper, It wasn't nice.
</TOO MUCH INFORMATION>
Mark Rand RTFM
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wrote:

Truly, information overload! :-)
Harold
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wrote:

A lot of carbide inserts come with a hole molded in them to help when attaching to the line :-)
Mark Rand RTFM
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Thank you. Yeah, inflation doth bite. At the same time, if you think that the dollar has *ever* seen a high rate of inflation, you'll be in for an awful shock when the petrodollar exclusivity is finally broken. Well, SOME people will be, but I suspect you invest in resources rather than currencies and are probably already aware of the upcoming period of catastrophic inflation.
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On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:20:45 -0500, "Adam Corolla"
<snip>

<snip> Rumors, innuendo, and gossip continue to indicate that Saddam Insane got the chop because of three no-nos.
1.    He started pricing Iraq's oil in Euros, and was thus threatening to blow that particular scam.
2.    He was beating the oil futures speculators because he could turn the oil spigot on and off, as required to make a profit going short and long.
3.    He was speculating against the US dollar, verging on economic warfare, as an extension/expansion of his oil speculation successes.
Note: Iran has begun to require payments in Yen from Japan, and Euros from Europe for their oil, and China and the other large holders of US dollars and dollar denominated securities are forming "sovereign investment" entities, to exchange their virtual dollar assets for equities including land, buildings and large shares of American corporations.
Just who do these foreigners think they are, demanding that the US redeem their IOUs? If PIK [payment in kind, where you make the debt payments with more paper debt] is good enough for the US banks and hedge funds it should be good enough for China and the Arabs.
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ===========Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.
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Immediately after the "mission accomplished" vistory over Saddam, I exchanged a substantial amount of our dollars into euros, and held them ever since. A decision that I am not at all regretting. I feel much better with cash in euros rather than in dollars, though I still have quite a lot of dollar assets -- but not 100%.
i
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You were smart to invest in Euros then. I didn't know about any of this until recently.
Though I'm no expert in this, I have a feeling that a sudden, catastrophic drop in the dollar's value could negatively impact the Euro as well, not to mention the entire world economy. I'm not saying it would devastate the world economy, just that it wouldn't be good.
To me, all currency is just an IOU which can be voided at any time. Of course, nothing is 100% proof against loss, but I feel better putting my money in hard assets.
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You did not know about our trade deficit, mounting debt, and artificially low interest rates?

It would be a good thing, in my opinion, though it will obviously lead to higher interest rates here in the US. Since US foreign debt is denominated in dollars (not typical), an option to av oid paying it is inflation. Another outcome is a more responsible fiscal policy, and more favorable trade balance.

Make sure that the "hard assets" earn you money while you are holding them. Here, I am a little bit preaching to do what I say rather than what I do, since for a few years I held 7 100 oz silver bars. But that was because I thought that silver was underpriced.
i
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You are correct.

I'm not on the same page, thinking a sudden, catastrophic drop in the dollar would be a good thing. Unless you're considering the viewpoint of countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran, which would be just as valid as any other.

:-)
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wrote:

Exactly.
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On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:50:30 -0500, F. George McDuffee
<snip>

<snip> This just in
Light, sweet crude for November delivery hit $90.02 in electronic trading Thursday evening before returning to around $89.60. Earlier, prices had risen $2.07 to settle at a record $89.47 on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
for rest of article click on http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071018/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices ;_ylt=AruHFnuAVqfG6j2nA3x8eKSs0NUE
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ===========Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.
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On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:50:30 -0500, F. George McDuffee
<snip>

<snip> ======connect the dots.....
=======dot #1 AP Dollar Hits Low Against Euro Thursday October 18, 5:35 pm ET By Erin Conroy, AP Business Writer Dollar Drops to Low Against Euro Amid Weak Economic News From Washington
NEW YORK (AP) -- The dollar fell to a new low against the euro on Thursday after the 13-nation European currency broke through the $1.43 mark on reports from Washington that growing economic weakness was boosting jobless claims. for rest of article click on http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071018/dollar.html?.v=2 =======dot #2
MF says dollar overvalued
By Chris Giles in London
Published: October 17 2007 14:00 | Last updated: October 17 2007 14:00
Currency traders were given a green light to continue selling the US dollar on Wednesday, as the International Monetary Fund said the greenback remains overvalued and rejected claims the euro had risen too far. for rest of article click on http://www.ft.com/cms/s/e87f070e-7c96-11dc-aee2-0000779fd2ac,Authorised lse.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fe87f070e-7c96-11dc-aee2-0000779fd2ac.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&nclick_check=1 =============dot #3
October 18, 2007 Iraqi Contracts With Iran and China Concern U.S. By JAMES GLANZ
BAGHDAD, Oct. 17 Iraq has agreed to award $1.1 billion in contracts to Iranian and Chinese companies to build a pair of enormous power plants, the Iraqi electricity minister said Tuesday. Word of the project prompted serious concerns among American military officials, who fear that Iranian commercial investments can mask military activities at a time of heightened tension with Iran. <snip> The Iraqi electricity minister, Karim Wahid, said that the Iranian project would be built in Sadr City, a Shiite enclave in Baghdad that is controlled by followers of the anti-American cleric Moktada al-Sadr. He added that Iran had also agreed to provide cheap electricity from its own grid to southern Iraq, and to build a large power plant essentially free of charge in an area between the two southern Shiite holy cities of Karbala and Najaf. <snip> The agreements between Iraq and Iran come after the American-led reconstruction effort, which relied heavily on large American contractors, has spent nearly $5 billion of United States taxpayer money on Iraqs electricity grid. Aside from a few isolated bright spots, there was little clear impact in a nation where in many places electricity is still available only for a few hours each day. <snip> Of the two new projects Iraq has agreed to finance, Mr. Wahid said, the largest is a $940 million power plant in Wasit to be built by a Chinese company, which he said was named Shanghai Heavy Industry. That project would pump some 1,300 megawatts of electricity into the Iraqi grid. For comparison, all of the plants currently connected to Iraqs grid produce a total of roughly 5,000 megawatts. <snip> for rest of article click on http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/18/world/middleeast/18grid.html?eiP90&enK892e7422c8bdd6&ex 50360000&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ===========Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.
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I can't help but notice how the value of the dollar is more closely related to the price of crude than anything.
I agree----we're in for a lumpy ride in the near future.
This is the time to own "things", not money. I used to refine precious metals. Sold my platinum WAY too soon. Who'd have ever thought it would reach $1,400? sigh!
Harold
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On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:36:25 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,

Unfortunately, it's an inverse relationship. The higher the crude, the lower the dollar.

Agreed. <sigh>

This is the time to be as self-sufficient as possible. Those "crazy survivalists" weren't so crazy after all, were they? ;)
It's time to update my bug-out bag, too, ah reckon.
-- History is often stranger than fiction. Fiction has to be plausible. History is what happens when people don't follow the script. --pete flip, RCM
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Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

Really, Harold.
Out of context, this looks like a huge devaluation. In context, not so much.
Better comparisons would be to look at the price of gold, etc, against the monthly average wage.
Wages have increased a great deal, also, in the time frame. A guy that could buy an ounce of gold on his payday then, can still pretty much buy one now.
Inflation sucks, but comparing just one data point, such as "the price then was..." is pretty much useless info.
Compare how long a person could live, on the sale of an ounce of gold, then to current state.
That would be a little better comparison.
Cheers Trevor Jones
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Oh, contraire! It is a huge one. In my lifetime, I can recall 1st class postage costing 3 (three cents, in the 50's and earlier), and a post card only 1 (one cent). You don't think that's a huge devaluation? Increases come regularly now, each of which is often as much as one used to pay for posting a letter.

That's the point, however. All those other things do is present more examples of what I'm talking about. The fact is, the dollar is worthless-----so everyone demands more of them to stay even. I simply used an ounce of gold as an example. Could have just as easily used the house I bought in '63 for $18,750. I sold it long ago, bit it would be "worth" around $250,000 today. The dollar is worthless, there's no polite way to say it. Nothing displays that better than the price of commodities today.
Surely, you remember when a barrel of crude was three dollars?
Harold
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There are plans to replace the US dollar with a regional currency. If that actually comes to pass it will be the time to own things. I understand that some of the new currency has already been minted. The plan calls for a common currency for the US, Canada and Mexico. It will be intresting to see what the exchange rate will be when US dollars are converted to the new currency. Forgien investors may be in for real shock if they are banking on the US dollar. It appears there would be a massive devaluation of the greenback if this happens. BTW the pics i have seen of the AMERO appear to be gold coinage.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aidp58
Best Regards Tom.
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Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

Nope! I guess I'm just a pup. :-)
Best I can give you for a reference point, is that I can vagely recall being kept home from school and shown the moon landing on TV (fuzzy black and white), but not having a real idea of the signifigance. 25 cent was about what it cost me to get into a movie, about what I made on a lawn, if I did a decent job of it. From what I have heard lately, tha reference point seems to work, currently, if one is not hiring a pro.
Back when you were paying 3 cent postage, you were being paid how much in wages?
Sure prices have gone up. Proportianately, the real cost of living has gone down, compared to what we earn. We have luxuries and conveniences in our lives that were unimagined back in the days when a couple bucks a day was a living wage.
I would be quite upset if I were to see my standard of living backslide, while I made more money (and spent it) but I am not seeing that.
At the end of the accounting, the devaluation of the dollar, due to inflation, makes an interesting academic point, but if we wish to see the prices of that day, we must also accept the wages of that day. he numbers are meaningless, unless held in perspective, with meaningful reference points.
Going back to the old numbers won't make anyone any happier except the accountants, 'cause they will get to use smaller numbers. The well off, will still be, and the less well off, will also.
I think it will come as a shock to many Americans, to get used to being part of the world economy, rather than being a controlling interest in it.
As a Canadaian, we have been also-rans in the scheme of things for quite a while, much due to concious decisions made by our government (trade emphasis on export of raw materials, esp.), and it is a bit of a shocker to see the dollar at or above par with the US. The last time that happened, was in my lifetime, but before my awareness of same. I am certain that the high Canadian dollar is causing howls of consternation from several sectors, mostly in the export industries, as they are dependant upon the difference to profit(more) in their trade.
We're not going to see a $2500 family sedan at the carlot anytime soon, but we are not going to see wages back to the levels they were then either.
Cheers Trevor Jones
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Agreed.
However, something odd has happened with the prices of aluminum, tin, zinc, nickel, copper, lead, silver, gold and platinum. Over the past five years the price increase of all these has averaged way more than 100%; however, if you look at the prices on a graph, the increase was more gradual up to fall of 2005, then the rate of increase took a sharp upturn.
What happened in the fall of 2005 to account for this?
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My opinion?
The perceived "success" of China. They're busy selling goods made by wages that are considerably lower than those in other countries. Needless to say, demand is high, even with questionable quality, and in order to provide, they must have raw materials. There's nothing better than a shortage of any substance to create an unreasonable market.
My thoughts on this entire matter are that those of us that have had things good---have lost our perspective. We are used to unearned money, and continue to demand ever more. Along comes China, a country that is willing to work for little, and floods the world with goods at low prices. Pretty soon, the guy that's been building widgets, earning his $30/hr wages is no longer in demand, for the guy in China, that's being paid far less, is willing to make widgets. That concept cascades, and soon the only products that are made here are those that are proprietary, if even them.
Our unquenched greed is coming home to roost.
Everyone is in for one hell of a shock as we come to realize we are no longer an island, that we are, indeed, part of the balance of the world, and in order for us to exist, we must be competitive with the average. The day of unearned money is gone----and many will suffer the consequences of having demanded pay beyond their worth.
None of this is news, is it? Didn't this get started back in the 70's? Weren't the majority of machine tool builders gone by the mid 90's-----no longer able to compete? Any of this surprises you?
Harold
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