Machine part site

Great company. been getting stuff from them for years. Buy from them and you'll get sale catalogs

karl

Whole buncha toggle clamps.

Whole buncha toggle clamps.

Sounds like an interesting project.

Interesting - as in "may you live in interesting times"? Or maybe more to the point... "Necessity is the mother of some really strange kids"?

I suspect most of us here have some control freak in our nature. Therefore, I suspect most of us expect a machine to be controllable (well Duh!). So a 6000 pound boat that ISN'T under control is pretty scary. Especially in really tight quarters, surrounded by a bunch of way more expensive other-people's boats! With people watching every move!

My motor is mounted on the transom (or what there is of a transom) about 3 feet port of the centerline of the boat.

The transom itself is a "walk-through" type (aka Sugar Scoop) and has a cute flip-over boarding ladder in the center. There is 2 or 3 inches clearance between the motor and ladder.

Add to all that, the motor is turned just a bit so that it compensates for the off-center thrust at cruise. (vectored thrust compensation) It works beautifully - at cruise.

So the motor's thrust, being offset to port, tends to make the boat turn to starboard.

In smaller sailboats the motor can be steered just like a fishing boat. But larger sailboats, for some traditional reason unknown to modern man, usually have he motor locked down and use remote controls for gear shift and throttle.

So, just like her diesel powered sisters, she tends to go where she wants to go rather than where I want her to go. Left to her own wiles, she will _not_ back to starboard (period), and getting going from a dead stop will usually involve some amount of turning to starboard.

Newton trumps Einstein!

So... Did I mention that there is no tiller on a remote-throttle motor???

It doesn't matter, because all outboard motors have the tiller mounted on the port side (way out of reach if the motor is hung on the port side!).

Anyway... I've removed the lock pin from the motor so that it can be rotated.

My one-man Keystone Cops routine consists of stepping out on the boarding deck, laying both hands on the motor cowl and turning the motor to point as needed, then putting it in gear and slowly (EVER SO SLOWLY!) backing out. (The rudder rotates 360 degrees on this boat, so it can help some, but no way the rudder can overpower the motor). It doesn't look too bad from the pier (neighbors have commented on the apparent smooth control of the boat when undocking. But they are not aboard doing this funky Texas Two-step)

Once 3/4 clear of the pier, select neutral, step back out on the back porch and twist the motor the other way, back to the controls in the cockpit to shift into forward, stop the turn, back out back again to straighten up the motor...

And woe be unto anyone in the cockpit who accidentally gets in the way!

There are several possible obvious solutions here.

One might be to install a normal outboard "thru-the-tilt-tube" steering system. But the catch there is that all of those systems stick out ot the tilt-tube a foot or more(!) and foul the boarding ladder.

Or

Adapt a steering tiller to the starboard side?!? (very possible) (a bent bracket bolted to the motor and a hickory stick - pretty simple)

Or

Move the motor to the starboard side (and replace the old mount with a new swing-up mount - oh yes, and swap the back stay to port (where it should have been in the first place!) And, relocate the throttle control to the starboard side of the cockpit...

Or

Figure out a more compact steering mechanism. There are several electric systems on the market (Panther for instance) but ALL mount off-center of the motor. Won't work here. Bummer

So, noticing a 12 volt _POWERED_ scissor jack on a new car (WTF?!?!?!), I wondered if such a drive might be available to solve my silly problems.. A couple of bent steel brackets and a 12 inch actuator?. Hmmm....

In the end, I'll probably wind up moving the motor to starboard this winter.

But electric steering??? Way cool!

Next thing I'll probably want wireless remote control too!

(Honey! Where's the remote???)

Just for reference...

Keep us posted!

Thanks Don, but I'll not pursue that one.

I'm a charter member of the "keep is simple and stupid" fan club. (Ed Heinemann was my favorite hero - "Simplicate and add lightness!)

Sailing is not always blue blazers and white duck trousers.

All the things we do on the boat have to be "do-able" in 30+ knots wind, with the boat pitching and rolling, green water washing over the deck, in pitch dark, while trying to do something else at the same time.

So my boat systems tend to be simple, manually powered where possible, and take as little training to operate as I can arrange.

We have GPS and an autopilot. But they don't get used very much.

This winter, when I pull the boat (gads! in a month or so???). We'll pull the motor off and move it to the starboard side (and swap the back stay to port - where it should have been in the first place).

We have a slight list to port because all the heavy stuff is installed on the port side. So moving the motor over will make a big difference.

That puts the motor's tiller side where it can be reached from the cockpit, and a hickory stick about 2-1/2 feet long will solve all my silly problems - as far as steering the motor goes, anyway. It's pretty hard to get any simpler than that.

I'd like to do away with the swing up motor mount as well. It's an extra step required to deploy the motor and it can't be done from the cockpit. (BEsides, the girls simply can't do it. (or won't - not that there's much difference)

There are two pics of the mount I'd like to find at the bottom of the page...

But it seems like nobody makes that simple mount any more (not even China).

I think it would be pretty simple for a real metal smith to make. Heavy stainless steel sheet, cut, bent, welded.

If anybody knows where to find one, I'll email your favorite libation for a link!

Or, if anybody would be interested in making one, I'd pay gladly for it!

Your thought is correct. That would indeed be an easy peasy job if all the details were known.

Since you don't have a dimensioned and detailed drawing and specification that a metalworker could "build to print", you'll need a local artisan who can look at the job, discuss it with you until all of your wants and preferences are defined and understood, and then design and make what you want.

Perhaps you'd prefer a metalworker that has some experience with handling a rolling, pitching sailboat in 30+ knot winds in pitch dark with green water washing over the decks while trying to do something else. That might narrow the field a bit.

Might narrow the field a tad TOO much.

Besides, I doubt the equipment would fit through the hatch... And would probably sink the boat with the weight anyway. If not it would for sure rust up a mill right quick!

I can draw the thing. Detailed and dimensioned. I can do engineering drawings pretty well.

(I'd just need to get the dimensions and details from one of the guys who has one. There are several in our fleet)

But cutting, welding, and passivating stainless is a bit beyond my garage shop skills.

Start the bidding at $200?

Shouldn't be hard to get responses once you have a print and a spec.

Passivation might be an issue. You might need to separate that -- have one shop make the device and a metal treatment shop passivate it. Up here I'd have Deburring, Inc in St. Paul do that.

On the other hand, if there is a marine artificer there (and I'd think there'd have to be), your part would probably be easy for him.

Could you make a prototype out of mild steel?

Test it, then have it copied in stainless.

jsw

After you get the drawing made, post it over in sci.engr.joining.welding. Ernie does things like that including the passivating.

Dan

Good suggestion, Dan. Passivation of SS is (or at least used to be) done with nitric acid, not easy for amateurs to get these days but those in the biz should have no trouble. I have a gallon of fuming nitric from back in the day but I'm hoarding it. Maybe it's done with citric acid now. I've no idea where I'd get a jug of citric acid.

All passivation really does is dispose of surface Fe molecules that might oxidize and stain. A non-passivated SS object won't rust away and lose structural integrity like mild steel, it just won't stay as polished pretty for the white ducks and blue blazer set.

Wonder why aluminum wouldn't suffice here. It's easier to weld because it doesn't require backing gas. Might need to be thicker stock, so what?

I am not picking on you, Richard, honest I'm not. I'm just cautious, having been a consulting engineer as a side job for several decades. People think they specify what they want and then are disappointed when what they specified doesn't work as they expected. I purely hate disappointing customers and I also hate doing any job twice. I don't need a job. I'm retired.

I make stuff like this for my friends and neighbors all the time, it's part of what I do in my retirement. I do it freely, knowing they're there to help me out if and when I need a hand. They would be anyway so I do what I can whenever I can.

I am the Sword of my Family and the Shield of my Nation. If sent, I will crush everything you have built, burn everything you love, and kill every one of you. (Hebrew quote)

Sorry all.

Michael broke the earthlink news service. (BAD Michael!)

I missed several of the replies.

As for AL, there is still a chance we'll make it to Galveston Bay. (sweat a lot, get sea sick, and generally have lots of fun?)

That is real live salt water. Aluminum and salt water mix well - (aluminum loses). So, rather than doing it twice?

And yes, one could prototype with mild steel - or ven aluminum. But it would still need to be made of stainless (304?) in the end.

I'll get some dimensions and draw it up. See what Ernie says? :)

But I suspect my opening bid was embarrassingly low. I checked prices at MetalsOnLine.com today. There is $70 to $80 in metal alone.

Better design for minimal labor cost, huh?

Richard

Copy that.

But I'm a LONG way from any real marine industries.

But you might be right about having different shops do things. When it gets to that level, shipping near or far doesn't make a lot of difference - long as it's not to China.

Citric acid can be found in the bigger supermarkets. And you might be able to get it from a water softening company. Or search over in sejw. Ernie has posted where he gets the stuff he uses.

Dan

The mount you show is pretty simple to make. I wouldn't try to bend stainless - not that you can't do it but it would probably be easier to cut four sides and weld them together.

If you get some flat stainless the correct thickness you can cut the four sides in probably less then an hour with a 4" angle grinder and a

1 mm cutoff wheel. Once you get them cut finish grind them to size in pairs (R & L sides, Front & back), drill any required holes and either weld them yourself or have them welded. Passivation can be done with Stainless Pickling gel (paint it on, wait a bit and wash with clean water) or can be polished to a gloss.

I'd reckon that with a 4" angle grinder, a DC arc welder and a handful of stainless electrodes and a bottle of pickling gel it can be finished by supper time.

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb (jdslocombatgmail)