Machinist tools- what should a begginer buy?

A loaded question for sure, but hey, I've got about 900.00 to spend on tooling, to start. My future interestes are model making, small engines/model engine repair, etc. What type of tooling list would you recommend, both for layout and measurement? Brands/types ect., good quality, as I don't want to have to buy twice. I already have a well tooled, albeit old, SB 11" with the funky 1 5/8 spindle, and will be looking for a small mill in the distant future. Basically, I want to buy the majority of what I need now, to do most anything, and add specialty items on an "as needed" basis. Ideas? I realize it's a broad request, but I want to cover the bases. All comments welcome. If you want to drop an email, remove the first 2 m from the email header. Thanks! Randy

Reply to
Randy
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Randy) wrote in news:3fc78412.287341 @news3.myhome.net:

For Inch Measurements..

0-6 calipers (Brown & Sharp, Starrett, Mahr, or Mitutoyo) 0-1 Micrometer and maybe a 1-2, depending on how big of work you are doing. Precision Combination Square set (Starrett) Set of Small bore gauges Magnetic Base, Last word indicator, 0-1 indicator and 0-3 indicator Radius Gauge Thread Gauge

Just to start

Reply to
Anthony

One of the handiest tricks/tools I've ever used is a decent dial indicator (typically the 1" travel version), with a mighty mag base. Great for getting work roughly (even though it's not exact, you can get pretty close with one) centered in a 4 jaw, or slap it on the ways (or where ever is handy) and you have a poor mans DRO for your lathe.

Not exactly tool related, but ya could take some of the spare change from your budget and get a couple books.

Reply to
Lynn Amick

$900 is not much to blow on what you may want.. or it might be???? an old man(engineer) retired and as he was well fixed financially he had a complete machine shop set up in his basement... all brand new equipment, lathe, milling machine, power saws, and cabinets off all kinds of tool, all brand new... next year his son had to sell all the stuff and get it out of the house, the old man died and never got any time to play with it......

Reply to
jim

Anthony, you have expensive tasts. Especially the precision combination square set from Starrett and the last work indicator. Oh, and take the $350 Starrett 6" calipers out of there ;-)

Personally, I'd just tool up with mostly imported tools. You may want to spend the bucks on the calipers (Mitutoyo are fairly reasonable) and the micrometer (again with the Mitutoyo).

Definitely need the 1" plunge indicator + mag base combination (import quality) as well as a banana-type test indicator holder and a .0005" dial test indicator (for the mill, also import quality).

You'll probably need a bull peen hammer, a deadblow hammer, a center punch, a scriber (carbide is not necessary, but nice) a good set of hex keys (Bondhaus is good, Ekland are OK). Get the keys, not the fold-outs. I'd go for the ball-end, although they are close to twice the price.

You'll also need a fixed square (on the mill). Bevelled edge is better but more expensive (import quality - band names are wicked money).

Edge-finder for the mill. There are other ways to do it, but the premium imports work well and are not too expensive.

You'll also need files. Buy the Swiss-, American- or Canadian-made ones. Cheap files are useless. A 10-12" flat bastard, a 10-12" flat 2nd cut (lathe type is nice for deburring pieces - which is what I use this file for all the time). You'll probably also want a 6" flat 2nd cut or smooth and a set of needle files (import quality is alright for the needle files - the good ones are big money).

Some say a file card is not necessary (and may be detrimental to your files) although I'm not convinced it's a big issue (after filing for 6 weeks, 32 hours/week, using a file card to clean my files). Get some blackboard chalk for your files.

When you buy HSS toolbits for the lathe, don't buy Chinese. Get the highest cobalt content you can afford (7% is good). You _will_ need a bench grinder... No, they don't come presharpened. No, brazed carbide cutters are not useful without sharpening. Don't be cheap ;-)

That's all I can think of for now..

Regards,

Robin

Reply to
Robin S.

Geeez - I just spent $1500 for some tools for my bench mill, and have not bought any cutting tools yet :-) Not to mention the $10-15 k in measuring tools I have collected over the last 25 years

Get a small granite plate, You can pick up a 9x12 for under $50, and a height gage for layout or measurement. a good mag base and o-1 dial > Randy wrote:

Reply to
James P Crombie

buy your stuff on ebay, i bought 4 last word indicator highest price was$35. indicators sell for cheap $20

Reply to
Asp3211968

"Robin S." wrote in news:dDPxb.22647$ snipped-for-privacy@news20.bellglobal.com:

Hrmmm... Maybe the prices have dramatically increased in the last few years...but I paid $180 for a Starrett combination set of 0-6" caliper, with depth gauge attachment and 0-1" mic both in the case, new. The combination square set wasn't too bad either.

Reply to
Anthony

If you have patience and don't absolutely need all of the tools right now, don't buy anything right away. Watch ebay and strike when the listing has a poor title, or is under market for whatever reason. Of course, you have to track some items first before you have an idea of the market. In the meantime someone may give you some of the tools you need or you may find them locally for next to nothing.

Reply to
ATP

Much though I like the starrett six inch calipers, I would have to advice a new worker to go with the mitutoyo, they are much more robust.

You can find a lot of micrometers inexpensively on ebay. I would not buy these new. I would start with a simple thousanths reading one inch mic.

I would put that last on the list, honestly.

Yes, the telescoping type. Very handy.

Especially the last word type.

As others have mentioned, edge finders or wigglers. Also a starrett automatic centerpunch and a scriber. A couple of good six inch rules if he does not spring for the 12 inch combination set.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

Yes I forgot to add that. Best is if you can find an estate sale and get some used tools, these can be had very inexpensively if you know what the right prices are for new, and bargain appropriately.

You also want to find a steel kennedy box to put this stuff in.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

What kind of caliper? I assume vernier when it is not specified. Starrett's only 6" vernier caliper is their Master and worth over $500 Cnd funds. Thier dial and digital calipers are more inline with Mitutoyo, although still more expensive.

True, but I would never suggest someone who's just starting out with a hobby to invest big money in the best tools when they don't even know if they will like the hobby.

Precision tools go for pennies on the dollar when autioned on eBay.

True. That works when you're starting out and will be doing the work for the next 30-40 years. Not for hobbyist. Those dollars could be better spent on a mill (and its tooling) or materials, or perhaps next week's grocery bill.

Regards,

Robin

Reply to
Robin S.

Does anyone actually use those things anymore? I find them useless compared to edge finders...

Starrett auto punches are soooo much money. You can buy a hammer and

*traditional* punch for less (and have better control over the size and location of your punches).

I'd say one needs a 6" flexible rule as well as the combination set, although I wouldn't go for the set until I had a use for it. Now that I've been forced to use them, I find the 6" rules to be one of my most used tools.

Any instructor at work who used to work for Rolls Royce (aircraft engines) told us that they used to have their 6" rules calibrated on a regular basis, and there are calibration standards that apply to them.

I'd get the rule with 10ths/50ths on one side, metric on the other. But I'm in Canada so one may opt for fractional inch instead.

Another question, can anyone really read the 100th scales? I find them a complete blur when trying to count how many marks beyond the closest numbered division the part is. We seem to sell a lot of 10/100 scales at work, but I would never buy one.

Regards,

Robin

Reply to
Robin S.

Take the $900, put it in a savings account, and buy what you find you need as you need it. The items I use most frequently are a 6" dial caliper (bought a new B+S 20 years ago), 0-1" micrometer, depth micrometer, dial indicator (my preference is the Interapid w/ 1.5 inch face and .0005 increment), edge finder and a couple of decent 6 and 12 inch rules. Keep your eyes out at estate sales and the like, as mentioned by others already. If you're going to buy new, shop around; here's a place that has some good deals

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Reply to
John Sullivan

He was probably talking about the, what, model 196 dial caliper, which goes for less than 200 dollars. It does happen to be my favorite but requires *rigorous* attention to cleanliness to keep the rack from getting swarfed up. I have to holler at my co-workers at least once a week to get them to keep their calipers in the case, with the cover closed. I cured one guy by showing him how to disassemble one of those, and ultrasonically clean all the parts to get the chips out, and then re-assemble and re-set them. He's been a lot better lately.

:^)

Well yes. Part of the fun is hunting down the bargains, or repairing old tools gotten for cheap. I can still re-build dial indicators because one of my first forays into this stuff was dismantling an Ames indicator and fixing it up. Took about two months to get it right for the first one. But now I can do one in two hours.

Hmm. Maybe you overstate the case just a *tiny* bit. I've purchased some stuff on ebay and to get what I really, really wanted, I wound up paying half or a third. Not quite pennies, and of course there's some risk there as well. Nice if you can fondle the merchandise before buying.

I might also comment that what you consider 'big money' might be 'petty cash' for others. Ah to be rich!

Jim

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Reply to
jim rozen

Wouldn't spend for an auto center punch, Robin is right, too much $$$.

Quality edge finder, make that 2. You will break 1 sooner or later. Happens to everyone. They don't cost much, so get quality.

Mitutoyo 8" dials. No others need apply. Digitals have no feel. With dials you can get closer measurements if you are familiar with them and calibrate to the jaw area you will be measuring with. That is a fact not open to debate. I do it quite often and have to sell the work.

A couple 6" scales, flexible type. Speaking of which, anyone know where to get same with decimal grads on both sides? I have little to no use for damned fractions. While I'm at it, decimal both sides with reversed pattern would be way cool. Robin?

I have a Lost Turd indicator somewhere, I think. Why anyone wants one of those rather than a decent B&S or the spendy-but-love-em Interapid. If I have it and the OP is serious, I will give it to him for $$ of shipping.

Don't forget that you will have machines, make stuff. It'll take time but it will allow you to gain experience at low risk and save the cash out of pocket.

If/when you get a dead blow hammer, don't waste money on the solid cast type or a fibreglas handle, no feel. Get a wood handle like a Lixie. I had 1 each of the aforementioned and gave them both away.

michael

Reply to
michael

And lo, it came about, that on 28 Nov 2003 23:18:54 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking , snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Asp3211968) was inspired to utter:

I haunt the pawnshops. What with the downturn in the manufacturing, there's a fair amount of machinist stuff there. OF course you get what you pay for, but a set of Brown & Sharp 1-2-3 blocks in the case, still in their wrappers, for $25 beat anything else I'd seen. Of course, _then_ I find my first set. So now I've two sets.

As for getting a tool list - check in at the local tech school, they usually have a list of tools to have. and you cane get more or less as the mood and moolla provides you.

pyotr filipivich "We don't support "guns" ... the term "gun" gets in the way of what is really being talked about here - we want choice in personal security devices." Ann Coulter

Reply to
pyotr filipivich

The starrett punches do come in different sizes, the smallest one is pretty accurate. I use them to pick up markes from my scriber. I rarely use a hammer and separate punch at work, but then I do a lot of chassis work, where the automatic punches are invaluable. But if one picks up a previously made mark from a scriber, they're just as good as a prick punch.

Sure, I often use them, under a microscope. They provide an excellent crossover between a microscope reticle and a coarser ruler. My favorite for six inch rules though is the starrette ones with eighths, sixteenths, thirty-seconds, and 64ths,

*and* the end graduations. Nobody else likes to work in fractions so the co-workers never swipe them!

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

For a beginner..Id have to say that there is nothing wrong with the Asian imports. Shrug..blasphemy as it may be.

I spend all day long in production machine shops and see most of the guys using Peacock, Penguin, etc etc metrology equipment. Its the old timers and the inspection department with the spendy stuff.

A customer of mine has a huge metrology department, calibration etc etc (and they do such for other companies, almost as a side line business) and while they shake their heads saying it..they cannot find anything wrong with the average Chinese mics, calipers etc etc. They all say they measure just as well, over a 5 yr period as do the Good Stuff. I have a shop full of The Good Stuff, but I also have the cheapies, and will grab whatever is handy at the moment with no worries.

The Last Word indicators...are Junk. Make very well, but junk. Shrug. Dials are too small, they swarf up easily, etc etc. Nobody I know uses them anymore. They were Good Stuff at one time..but...that time is long gone. I have to use 10ths indicating Dial Test indicators every day doing CNC stuff, and shrug..they are worthless to me.

Fowler, SchomerTec, Teslla, Mits, Peacock, Enco..etc etc..all decent. I have an old Federal that I keep in a plastic endmill holder in my tool box..old bastard is probably at least 40 yrs old. No chrystal, but still calibrates perfectly. I think it was $10 somewhere.

When I had my truck burglarized in 2000, they took virtually all of my Mits and B&S stuff and Ive been slowly replacing them with Chinese etc..and find nothing wrong with them in a hard working, beater invironment. And when someone sets a 250lb casting on top of one..they only have to pay me $45 for a new one, rather than $150 for Good Stuff. (very long ugly story..lol)

Gunner

"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the "lions". Christopher Morton

Reply to
Gunner

"Robin S." wrote in news:9%Rxb.24282$ snipped-for-privacy@news20.bellglobal.com:

Dial Caliper. I am not sure of the model number, they are at the garage. Next time i'm over there i'll look.

Reply to
Anthony

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