what makes a satisfied customer ?

I'm afraid the only answer you're not interested in is probably the most important! I rarely buy from my local model shop (Gee Dee Models in Nottingham) because they are ridiculously expensive. Over 40% more expensive for Peco points, for example, when compared with Rails of Sheffield and an extra £15 for a Bachmann class 66 when compared with Hattons. I don't expect my local shop to compete to the penny with the 'box shifters' and I am prepared to pay a premium for good local service but price differentials such as the ones above are too much for me.

ROB

For me, its a number of things, of which price cannot be discounted (excuse the pun), but more importantly, To deliver when stated, Courtesy, Good knowledge.

I recently cancelled an internet order with Hattons for a reasonable amount when after calling them to see when I may expect delivery, the chap on the other end said we might get around to packing it later this week. This was on a Monday, 3 working days after placing the order.

I have dealt with John Turner on a number of occasions now and he has never tried to sell me something I have not wanted (as tends to be the case in my not so local shop), the items have always been as stated and delivered when expected, and although the price has not always been the cheapest (but on many occasions it has) it is worth paying a little bit extra for the piece of mind.

I would imagine it could be quite difficult starting out without an established user base and as such you will have to offer something special to encourage people to deal with you. This could be cheap prices, your integrity when dealing with customers, previous customers recommendations, your helpful knowledge willingly given on groups like this or a large or different/specialist stock selection.

I normally place orders for a number of items at the same time and therefore like to buy them from a single supplier to cut down on the shipping costs. Therefore a large selection of items for sale can be an advantage as well as there being the opportunity to offset some costs of some items against those of others. Not every supplier has the same items at the lowest prices.

My thoughts anyway FWIW.

Eddie

Hi Rob thanks for the answer, i think Gee Dee Models are probably selling at RRP ( £ 72.95 FOR CLASS

66`S ), What i am thinking is to have more than just the big names, so would a wide range of items play a part, or would it be being able to talk to the man behind the counter, or is it just down to box shifting that makes jo public happy ?

Mr John Turner ( Sir John :-) ), Do you have any thoughts on this ??

Kindest regards Simon

Hi Rob,

We have two Model type shops in Plymouth neither of them specifically Railway and the prices in both are completely variable and usually much more expensive than the likes of Rails or Hattons. I needed 2 sets of peco LH points to complete part of my layout and the price for each on the internet were £5.75 from Rails, £6 from Hattons and £5.95 and £6.75 locally. Bought them locally @ £5.95. Similarly Seep PM1s from Rails are £3.50, Hattons £4, and locally £4.25 and £4.50. Bought a load from Rails. Now, if you are only ordering one or two price doesn't make much of a difference if you take postage into account, but if you are ordering a couple of dozen it can be very expensive to shop locally.

Eddie.

And with notoriously surly and indifferent staff! After my occasional visits I vow never to return, but 6 months later I'm walking by and.......

Cheers Robt P.

Applies to almost any trader: staff who are interested in pleasing the customer, not grabbing their money.

I once phoned a very well known cycle shop in Somerset, and after explaining what parts I wanted, was put through to someone who greeted me with "hello, what can I sell you?". That put me right off and I won't use that shop again.

PhilD

A combination of reasonable price, reasonable range and a pleasant manner. I don't expect my local shop to be the cheapest, but if they are charging full RRP for locos and stock then I am afraid the order is going to Hattons or one of the other mail order houses. However, I will buy locally if I can as they are friendly, knowledgeable and carry a reasonable range. ("They" in this case being Monk Bar Models in York or Model & Craft Centre in Wakefield depending on where I am at the weekend). There used to be another model shop in York which carried a far more extensive range of finescale goodies, but they were rude and surley beyond belief so Dave Cleal at Mainly Trains got/gets my business for things the other two didn't stock. On the other hand (not really a fair comparison I know,) the NRM have extremely pleasant and friendly staff but appear to be charging RRP+20% so they don't get any business.

Goes for everything else too. I once walked out of Tescos and left =A370 worth of shopping on the converyor after the checkout operator scanned through my copy of "Private Eye" and asked "Bit of a lefty then are we ?".=20

Stuart.

Simon

As I said, I am prepared to pay more for a friendly local service, but there is a limit! Having a wide range would certainly make me more likely to visit, particularly for those occaisions when you realise you are lacking something vital halfway through a Saturday afternoon (and I don't mean a good result for Forest, these have been absent for so long I am almost accustomed to it!).

ROB

I suggest you place an order "incognito" with John Turner, you will see what sort of service gets you satisfied customers.

Price is always going to come into it,as is locality. If you can not compete on price your only going to sell your product when all others have sold out, i.e class 60 at the moment. Then you will find people ordering stuff from locations out of your local catchment area. The ideal model shop for me has a good range of stock, kits. bits and rtr. You cant sell it if you dont have it in stock Friendly staff who dont pretent to know more than they do Somewhere near to park or a very good mail order service (53a of Hull outstanding)

>

(look away now 60106, it's your fave postee :-))

I think it comes down to a few factors - value for money, and the quality of service. As an example, I purchased a new Heljan 47635 (heritage large logo blue) from C&G Models, Darlington, where all locos (both new and 2nd hand) are tested in full view of the customer on purchase. Satisfied, I took it home, only to find a problem with the spring buffers on closer inspection (the leaf spring that pushes the buffers out at one end was missing). I took it back the next day to get it replaced, only to find none were in stock. Instead of leaving me without the loco I was after, the chap behind the counter went through almost every Heljan 47 he had in stock (with some help from myself) to try and find one with the same fuel tank/battery box arrangement. After half an hour of fruitless searching (you'd be surprised how many different underframe toolings Heljan have!), we had success and

47635's bodyshell was mounted on an appropriate chassis with working buffers, while the one with the dud buffers was returned to Heljan, mated with the chassis donor's body. Now that's what I call good after-sales service!

after-sales

No, that's what is called keeping a sale! :~)

Faced with a long wait, for either a replacement loco or part, many people would have opted for a refund and then bought elsewhere...

"Simon Judd" wrote

What's the Sir John nonsense?

Other than that, the only advice I can offer is to be honest and straightforward with people and if you say you're going to do something, then do it, irrespective of any personal inconvenience.

At the end of the day nothing other than personal experience will tell you what will and what won't sell in your local area. The trouble is it can be an expensive lesson to find out what will sit on your shelves for months or even years on end.

The only other comment is don't try to operate without profit - that's the surest way to rapid closure.

If you genuinely want any advice Simon feel free to contact me off-group.

John.

Good post Rich, enjoyed it..... :)

Cheers Robt P.

But is the point of good after-sales services exactly that, to keep a sale? A happy customer is a repeat customer.

On 04/01/2006 15:30, PhilD said,

Oh - you've dealt with St. John Street Cycles as well :-( They have lost a high-ish value order from me because of a total lack of response to a question. On the plus side, their on-line shop works well - doesn't need any customer interaction, see!

On 04/01/2006 13:20, Simon Judd said,

For me, it's knowing when the goods will arrive. If it's going to be a week (or a day for Mainly Trains!) then great. If it's going to be three months, then TELL ME it's going to be three months, don't give me excuses and non-answers. If you say on your website it may take 30 days, then deliver it within 30 days or at the very least let me know.

I won't name Blackham Transfers specifically (whoops!), but over 8 months for an £80+ pre-paid order with still no satisfactory answer ain't good enough!

"Rich Mackin" wrote

Exactly!

John.

I hate to say it, but the answer you don't want is probably one of the most important ones. A 66 class is identically the same whether you buy it from a high priced shop or a box shifter. There has to be a happy medium struck between pure and simple bare-bones box shifting and offering some services to the customer, but at prices that can still be competitive with the box shifters. BTW, we call them "basement bombers" on out side of the lake, but it's the same animal right on.

I buy trains and supplies from a regular tain shop near me because they have what I want when I want it, they will get me what I want within a couple of days if they don't have it in the shop, and they have a friendly, courteous staff that know about model railways from N scale to large scale, live steam and tinplate. on top of all that, they also have discounted pricing. Now, that being said, I also trade with a fellow who does business out of his home via telephone and I-net- a box shifter. He sells numerous specialty items along with a line of products he manufactures himself. He competes only marginally with the regular shop.

Our largest "box shifter" here actually had a storefront in a shopping center. He had tons of merchandise piled up on the shelves, much of it at less than dealer cost. He bought directly from the manufacturer and got great deals. BUT... He is gone. I suspect the reason is that there was zero service of any kind and the staff were totally inept and clueless with regard to model railways. If you had a question, you were not going to get an answer there. You would call on the telephone and ask if they had any GP38s, and the voice on the other end would say "what's that?" One cannot operate a model shop like that.

So I guess the answer is that the most important things needed to make me a happy customer are competitive pricing and a very thorough knowledge of model railways from the point of the hobbyist and from the point of the supplier.

In message , snipped-for-privacy@noisp.com writes

Probably the reason he went (like so many others of that type) was that he was selling his stock at little more than cost and failed to account for his expenses. The 80's saw a lot of Model rail shops disappear because they couldn't distinguish between 'Turnover' and 'Profit'.