Miller 210 or 251 or Lincoln?

A client today mentioned he was going to buy a new mig machine, and I commented that I had a nearly mint Airco PhaseArc 350, identical to the one on his shop floor, but I couldnt use it as I didnt have a big enough rotary converter .

To make a long story short..he has offered to buy me a brand new mig, and simply trade me for mine as he loves his existing machine and its powerful enough to do the big stuff he does, etc etc.

So...which do I go for? He mentioned being willing to spend around $1600, and he can get nearly wholesale pricing. Very old shop, very well known fellah.

Ive been browsing around the net at pricing..and the 251 comes in around $1700 (and I think he can beat that) or the 210 which is around $1300 or so.

To complicate things..as I mentioned earlier..I bought a used Miller

30A spool gun, which appears to be set up for direct use/plug and play, with the 251, but not usable ? with the 210.

Or should I be looking at a Lincoln? If so..which one in that $1700 price range? The spool gun will need an expensive adapter at that point..so it goes on the back burner.

Gunner, somewhat of an advanced hobby welder/JOT

"That which does not kill us has made a tactical error."

--Howard Tayler > 'The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates' >
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Reply to
Gunner
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No brainer. Get a Millermatic 251. Plug your 30A right in. I have the 250, same machine but not digital, and didn't come with the spoolgun module. Outfitting it to work with the 30A cost me about $250. That's not counting the 30A.

New Miller? Shoot .. go for it.

GWE

Reply to
Grant Erwin

No question about it, go for the 251. I have one with the 30A and love it. I've had quite a few machines and the 251 / 30A combination is excellent. Lots of nice features built in, one of the nicest arcs I've seen, repeatable settings, gas saving feature, gun on demand,dead stinger when using spoolgun, quick change rollers, push pull availible, plus a lot more.The worst thing is the cheesey gun and cable holder that folds out from the side, but that really isn't a big deal to fix.

Good to see your silver cloud is still raining on you!!

Pete

Reply to
Pete

Jeez, Gunner, are you asking for advice or is this basically a gloat? :-) I would wait exactly 2 heartbeats, and then jump on the 251. You've got the 30A, now get the machine to go with it!

Just think, if you'd snagged this a few years ago you would have missed out on seeing your trailer's spare tire pass you on the highway. That

251 will deliver a lot more heat to the bead than the little MIG you were using then!

You ever find that spare tire?

Take care, Dave

Reply to
LowEnergyParticle

Sigh..no...gone into the limbo that small springs and dropped screws disappear into.

Gunner

"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."

- Proverbs 22:3

Reply to
Gunner

Get the Millermatic 251 and be very very happy. We have 3 at South Seattle CC and they are great machines. If you plan on running any dual-shield wire, plan on upgrading the gun to a Tregaskis 400 amp Toughgun. Great combination, and your spoolgun will plug right in.

Reply to
Ernie Leimkuhler

Although informed advice seems unanimous to go for the 251, I'll note anyway that the 210 is also set up for spoolgun. There's a compatible socket on the front panel. You can have both the regular torch and spoolgun on the same machine and switch back and forth between them.

Reply to
Don Foreman

Thanks Ernie. Ive got probably 100lbs of .045 dual shield..ie 3 of the big spools and I understand its the Good Stuff for welding the kind of stuff I do...rusty iron and old pipe and whatnot

Will the supplied gun do the job for a while?

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner Asch

But is the 30A compatable with the 210? I looked at the blurb for both..and the 210 shows a different spool gun listed.

Thanks

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Yes, but you will quickly burn it out. The gun Miller installs is a Tregaskiss gun, but it is one of their bargain basement guns.

The guns you want are either the XL3015 or XL4015. The "XL means Toughgun, the "3" or "4" means 300 amps or 400 amps, and the "15" is 15 feet.

So a XL3012 and XL4012 would be 12 foot guns.

I like the 400 amp guns but a 300 may be enough.

Just stay away from the 200 amp guns.

Here is a eBay listing that shows all 3

You can see the construction is very different between the 200 amp series and the 300 and 400 amps guns.

In 7 years at South Seattle we have yet to break a Toughgun. We have replaced lots of liners, gas diffusers, tips and cups, but no trigger switches, goosenecks or gun bodies.

Reply to
Ernie Leimkuhler

That link did not work for me. Here is a simpler version:

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(item number 7587044011)

Reply to
xray

You'd need adapter cable #195-287 to hook a 30A to a 210. Those list for $57.00.

It seems like the choice between the 251 and the 210 is a no-brainer, though, so the point is probably moot.

I've been delighted with my 210. I've welded everything from exhaust pipes to 1/2" steel with it, and I'd "ride" every weld I've made. I'd expect that the 251 works as well or even better, with more capacity for heavier work.

Reply to
Don Foreman

Is that all? No boxes/boards/expensive gizmos?

Depends on what I can talk the dude into. He was talking about a Miller

250..which isnt made anymore IRRC . If I have to kick in some cash to make it fly..Ill do what I can do.

Its better to have the capacity and not need it..then need it and not have it

Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment is to gullshit in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration, knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

Reply to
Gunner

I have a MM250, and really love it. I believe it has all of the capabilities of the MM251, it just isn't digital. What you do *not* want is a 250X, those were poor stepchildren, a sadly broken design.

GWE

Reply to
Grant Erwin

Ah! In my google searches..they said the 250x was plug and play with the 30A spool gun. Thanks for the heads up!

I dont care if its digital or not, or has fancy programs etc etc..just some juice to burn big wire fast.

Thanks

Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment is to gullshit in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration, knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

Reply to
Gunner

I've got the MM210 as well and it is a great machine. Unless you are building battleships it's hard to imagine this machine disappointing you. I'm 98% a Tig guy (Dynasty 300DX) but when I went shopping for a Mig the common thought over on the Miller forums seemed to be that the MM210 was a great bang for the buck and that it was able to outperform its specified capacities by a bit. I'm not sure I understood your situation exactly, with respect to the deal you are getting on these machines, but if the 251 is going to cost you more than you want to spend, there's no shame in the 210.

FWIW, my local dealer was able to slightly beat ebay pricing on the MM210 and I got it for around $1250.

Reply to
Jeff B

Ive a customer who was going to buy a new Miller 250..he said for something around $1600 (he gets a hell of a deal from somebody)

I mentioned I had a mint Airco PhaseArc 350 that I couldnt use as it was

3 phase, and matched the identical one he had sitting in his welding area. Which he really really likes. He said he liked the PhaseArc so well..that he would buy a new Miller 250 and swap me it for the PhaseArc as he had to spend the money anyways and would get me a single phase machine that I could use.

Earlier that day..Id picked up a complete used (missing the top cover over the rollers) Miller 30A spool gun for $25 from a pile of them at Reliable Tools (surplus and internet auction place here in California) hoping I could make it work on some of the machines Ive got here, just to do aluminum with. So the ability to plug and play right into a 251 would be icing on the cake.

I see the 251s on Ebay for $1795, free shipping with standard gun so its still in the price range he was thinking about..and if he can get a brotherinlaw deal with his dealer (he spends a LOT of money on supplies etc) then thats the way to go. If I have to kick in a few bucks..shrug..Ill do what I can. I was worried that the 210 wouldnt be capable of running the 30A spool gun without a bunch of expensive adapters and boxes and whatnot. I really dont need to be able to weld

1/2" plate. Im not a commercial welder..just a dauber with a sorta advanced hobby shop

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My current machine (not counting the PhaseArc) is an elderly Dan-Mig 200 that has seen far far better days and some other welders...Dialarc 250 stick, Airco SquareWave 300 tig/stick and soon, another Dialarc 250 HF with pedal/cooler/pedal and torch (guy wants to trade some easy labor for it..repairing master cylinder on a fork lift)

Since the MM250 isnt made anymore IRRC..the 251 would be the replacement I guess. I was warned about the 250X being a piece of shit..and to stay away from it. It was plug and play with the 30A gun also., according to Miller. Id be happy with a 210, shrug..but would really like to be able to attach the 30A spool gun, but Millers website says "not recommended" for use with the 30A

I dont know why. They do offer a 3035 or somesuch spool gun for the 210, but I simply cannot afford to buy a new one, which is damned near as much as the welder itself

Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment is to gullshit in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration, knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

Reply to
Gunner

Huh? See

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This shows the 30A as an accessory for the 210. Looks to me like it just needs the $57 adaptor cable so the connectors will mate and the on-machine dial can control wirefeed rate.

If you see another 30A for $25, please grab me one! I'll be glad to pay shipping to 55432. Tell ya whut, it *will* work with my 210!

Reply to
Don Foreman

Call Reliable Tools in Irwindale California, ask for Pauli and see if they have any more. There was about 3-4 left when I got mine last Thursday.

They are the same Reliable Tools as the one on Ebay.

Now I still dont know if there is anything wrong with this unit..no way to test it, but it looks used, but ok.

Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment is to gullshit in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration, knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

Reply to
Gunner

Thanks Don..in the 30A product literature PDF file

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on page 2, it shows the various machines it can attach to, and they said "Not recommended" for the 210...so I was a bit concerned.

I can live with 7 taps rather than continuous adjustment and yes..I also believe in the KISS Principle.

I just hope the dude doesn't change his mind...

Im delivering him a drill press tomorrow, so that may help keep him focused.

Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment is to gullshit in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration, knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

Reply to
Gunner

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