Does anyone use moradic acid for cleaning steel? I am starting to weld horseshoes, but I have to clean them up from rust and anything else. I have been using a coarse wire wheel and it takes about 3 -4 minutes for one to do. I have herd from others that moradic acid (I hope I'm spelling and saying it right) cleans them by letting them soak.. If this is right, what is the ratio to use it as? Water mix. And how long to soak or drop in and out.
Don D.
It is spelled muriatic acid. It is available on the swimming pool chemical shelf at the big box stores.
Whenever I have used it I have just thrown the piece into it without diluting it, left it overnight, but this might not be the right way to use it - I wasn't doing anything too important...
Um, muriatic? Aka hydrochloric (typically 34.55% or something)?
Yeah, that works just fine. Rinse and oil quickly, and don't keep or use near tools.
Tim
Just to emphasize:
DON'T soak it overnight.
Quick dip, followed by an aggressive rinse.
-- Jeff R.
Wear safety goggles, rubber gloves and do it outside with the acid downwind from you. Neutralize with bicarbonate of soda.
I have three boxes of horseshoes that have been rained on and rust caked up pretty heavy I was thinking of throwing a few in a 5 gal. bucket over night or 24 hr. then clean up with water.
.............I just called one of the people that clean horseshoes for art work and he said he does a 25/75 ratio 25% acid and leave it over night. I may try that out and clean off in another 5 gal. of water.
Don D.
Well, OK Don, so long as they're only decorative. An overnight soak will do wicked things structurally. I wouldn't do it to machine parts or tools.
-- Jeff R.
Muriatic acid. Cheap stuff. Gives of strong chlorine fumes. Some of the nastiest stuff known to man. Burns skin in an instant. Very painful if you get it on flesh. Will blind you. If you are sensitive to it, it will cause you respiratory distress, or messed up sinuses and throat for weeks. It will eat anything it gets on ...... concrete ........ grass ......... painted surfaces ......... clothes ......... you name it, muriatic acid eats it.
TREAT IT WITH RESPECT! IT WILL KICK YOUR ASS IF YOU ARE NOT CAREFUL!
Steve
Vinegar & Salt works well too.
Leave in overnight or as long as needed.
Saturate the vinegar with salt (so much so that the vinegar can't hold any more salt)
-Tom
On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 22:44:55 GMT, the inscrutable "Emmo" spake:
It's cheap, too. I picked up a gallon last week at Farmer's Supply (Southern Oregon) for $3.49.
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Er... hydrogen chloride fumes. Hydrochloric acid is HCl gas dissolved in water. It does evaporate a little, leading to a white cloud on opening the bottle, this is due to the gas grabbing moisture in the air forming an aerosol of saturated acid, kinda interesting.
Combination with oxidizers such as manganese dioxide will oxidize the hydrogen, releasing chlorine gas. Ammonia and bleach will, too. But this isn't a concern with iron oxides or metal.
Speaking of which, leaving in overnight will certainly remove a small amount of metal, at least reducing size and tolerances, and at worst contaminating the piece with hydrogen and chlorides, leading to weakness and corrosion. Supposedly a bake at 800F or so will clean that up...
Tim
-- "California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes." Website:
Phosphoric acid is good too, it doesn't attack the metal as fast, so you can leave it in longer to get the stubborn bits off. Naval jelly contains it.
Alternatively, electrolytic rust removal is probably the best method of all, but a bit more complex.
You have to protect the fresh metal surface immediately after cleaning with all these methods, including muriatic/hydrochloric acid.
Incidently hydrochloric acid is also sold as "spirits of salt", at least here in the UK.
Oh, and remember:
Benny Wilson's dick is flaccid, Never have a son or daughter: He added water to the acid 'Stead of acid to the water.
... that's the polite version
Hydrofluoric acid. Don't go near it.
It's highly poisonous as well as ultra-corrosive, used to etch glass.
It can get absorbed through the skin and the lungs, and if you get too much in your system then you will die - it usually takes many hours to kill you, and it is an unpleasant way to go, especially at the end. Neutralising the acid does little, and the calcium ion antidote only works for small doses.
The only known-successful treatment for large-scale acute percutaneous HF poisoning (getting too much HF on the skin) is emergency amputation.
Worse, it only works if you are lucky enough to have only amputatable parts of the body exposed, a tourniquet is immediately applied and not ever loosened, and you get treatment in a very short time.
Even worse still, there are only a very few doctors in the world expert enough to be confident and willing to do the amputation - most ordinary doctors and medics will not even start to consider it before the poisoning is irreversible.
Especially in the US, they would likely be more worried about being sued for cutting your leg of unnecessarily than saving your life.
Have I scared you enough yet?
The really nasty thing is, it numbs the affected parts, so you may not realise you have been burned/poisoned until it is too late.
I'm told it feels like the skin is just wet, or simply slightly sweaty.
Not only did that scare me but you made me realize that I was probably pretty lucky to escape unscathed 50 or so years ago when as a youngster I used to help out at my dad's jewelry manufacturing plant in San Francisco. (OSHA wasn't invented yet.)
We used hydroflouric acid every day. We had a few pint sized jars of the stuff sitting on a shelf behing a wash sink. The jars were made of a white wax molded over a fibre base and had lift off wax lids.
We used the stuff when making platinum jewelry by lost wax casting. The melting temperature of platinum is so high that it glassified the investment "plaster" it contacted. After we broke up and washed off most of the investment the castings were covered with a layer of "glass" about twenty thousandths thick. Ploppiug those pieces in a hydroflouric acid pot for a few hours disolved off that glassy stuff without doing any damage to the platinum.
I do remember being warned to be ultra careful with that acid, and still have memories of erie white fumes wafting up out of those acid pots whenever I lifted a lid off one of them.
Thanks for the mammaries,
Jeff
"Don D." wrote in message news:%BrWd.95494$bu.19033@fed1read06... | I have three boxes of horseshoes that have been rained on and rust caked up | pretty heavy I was thinking of throwing a few in a 5 gal. bucket over night | or 24 hr. then clean up with water. | | .............I just called one of the people that clean horseshoes for art | work and he said he does a 25/75 ratio 25% acid and leave it over night. I | may try that out and clean off in another 5 gal. of water.
We use this trick at work for alodining aluminum parts that will work fine for you in this application. Get a good quality zip lock back and fill it with water to check for leaks. If none, drain the water and put what parts fit decently in the bag. Add liquid and close up to get the air out. Roll the bag around to get liquid all over your part. The neat thing is that if you do it right, a mere few ounces will do a part that takes a gallon bag or larger. Drain into a suitable container then rinse the part in the bag. Drain again and remove your part. Rinse one more time or as you see fit.
Oxylic Acid usually comes in powder for and diluted in water is a great rust remover and won't hurt the metal AND phosphoric is great for killing rust and phosphorizes the metal so rusting isn't a problem with short term exposure to moisture plus can be painted over...this is the active ingredient in Marine Jelly and pre paint prep for body shops.
You can add to the list nitric acid, which isn't forgiving of skin contact in the least. It can remove the surface of your eye faster than you can get it rinsed out. (Don't ask).
Actually, hydrochloric acid is relatively forgiving where skin is concerned. Should you happen to get it on you, as long as it isn't permitted to remain, it's no big deal. I'm speaking of skin that is relatively tough, hands, maybe lower arms. The only time I experienced any discomfort from hydrochloric (aside from breathing the fumes) was when I washed some brick with a dilute solution, some of which ran down my arms and remained for some time. I used it in the precious metal refining field for about 23 years with no incidents to report.
A good choice for killing rust is phosphoric acid, which does not attack the base metal, unlike hydrochloric. Assuming parts are allowed to soak over night (with hydrochloric), damage can be done to them. It has no reason to stop working until it's exhausted, so it dissolves the base metal right along with the rust, usually with considerable pitting in specific areas.
Harold
Is about half as poisonous as cyanide.
It's muriatic acid, a commercial grade of hydrochloric acid. Muriatic works faster, salt & vinegar is safer in that it won't eat the workpiece after the rust is gone. I use muriatic diluted with water about 50:50 and keep an eye on it.
BTW, I've tried acetic acid (with salt) at strengths greater than that of vinegar up to 28%. I didn't see any benefit of doing so. It just stinks more.
Oxalic ..
Wow - watch out - that stuff is hot stuff. It eats skin nicely. use the baking soda instantly and then water. If you mix water - remember ACID into Water - slowly. Do it abcd.t(o)..Wxyz
Baking soda must be used to kill off the fast acting ions. It will eat metal also. It cleans and does good work in a lot of stuff. Just be careful.
You might be able to get a small amount HCL - at places like KMART garden and pool area.
Mart> It is spelled muriatic acid. It is available on the swimming pool chemical
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