Motor Shaft Suitable For Thrust?

I've got a customer who wants me to make him a chuck to go on to a 5/8" motor shaft. No problem.
My question is whether the motor shaft is suitable to receive a chuck since
he will be forcing the drill into material with around 400-500 lbs. of thrust.
My thinking is that the motor shaft may shift in the housing and damage the motor...
Am I right here or are there motors out there designed to take this type of load I'm not aware of, etc.?
Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 x113 01.908.542.0244 Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com / VIDEOS:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill
V8013-R
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 10:04:22 -0400, Joe AutoDrill wrote:

There may be motors so designed, but the ones I've worked with are designed to transmit torque, with maybe enough side loading for a pulley or a gear.
In fact, I briefly worked on a mechanism (designed by a consultant -- you can never trust those people) that looked like it was designed to do what we wanted, but turned out to be a motor-shaft-puller-outer.
Can you dig up a data sheet for the motor? If you can, and if it's made for OEMs to design into machines, then it'll have an axial force specification. It'll probably be much less than your 500lb, and you can show it to your customer to convince them they need external thrust bearings.
--
www.wescottdesign.com

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Joe AutoDrill wrote:

I don't believe any normal motors are designed to handle that type of loading. If you could use a dual shaft motor and provide a proper thrust bearing on the opposite end it might survive.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 8/10/2011 1:16 PM, Pete C. wrote:

I like the way your mind works!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 10:04:22 -0400, "Joe AutoDrill"

There are standard motors that will handle significant thrust loads, but you may have trouble locating one as small as a 5/8 shaft implies. For example:
http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/products/electric-motors/nema-ac-motors/pages/vertical-p-base.aspx
--
Ned Simmons

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 8/10/2011 10:04 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:

I drill tapered handle holes in Beech broom blocks with a 3 HP Grainger motor with a spoon bit attached. The motor is on a slide pushed with a 3" air cylinder. Yes, we had to replace the $10 bearings every few years.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Encouraging... What's the diameter of the holes?
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 8/11/2011 8:07 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:

Standard tapered broom handle, 3/4" to 1"...it take all 3 hp to do the job quickly.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Excellent news. Thanks for the info! I suppose I can simply warn the customers that an undersized motor (and thus smaller bearings) may cause premature bearing failure, etc.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Definitely yes!
They have an end bearing! This is a ball bearing placed in a small socket at the end tip of the shaft.
Make or model, I do not know but are popular among large fans for the thrust that is created.
--------------------
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
I've got a customer who wants me to make him a chuck to go on to a 5/8" motor shaft. No problem.
My question is whether the motor shaft is suitable to receive a chuck since he will be forcing the drill into material with around 400-500 lbs. of thrust.
My thinking is that the motor shaft may shift in the housing and damage the motor...
Am I right here or are there motors out there designed to take this type of load I'm not aware of, etc.?
Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 x113 01.908.542.0244 Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com / VIDEOS:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill
V8013-R
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have to agree that a fan creates "thrust" but certainly not the amount of thrist I'm talking about. My customers may be running 400-500 lbs. of thrust on that shaft whereas a fan might create a few hundred pounds of thrust only if it were large and high speed... And certainly not driven by a 1/2 to 3 HP motor like I offer.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
My mistake. I thought you were asking for help, not selling something.
I have seen many smaller motors with end thrust bearings back 30 years ago. Fan have a lot of end thrust when 0.5 HP is used to push air.
You didn't think most of the energy went somewhere else.
----------------
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message I have to agree that a fan creates "thrust" but certainly not the amount of thrist I'm talking about. My customers may be running 400-500 lbs. of thrust on that shaft whereas a fan might create a few hundred pounds of thrust only if it were large and high speed... And certainly not driven by a 1/2 to 3 HP motor like I offer.
--




Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Joe AutoDrill wrote:

I agree. But I think you may be missing what he is suggesting.
Would it be possible for what you are trying to do to get a double shafted motor (one with the shaft sticking out both ends) and then apply the trust to a thrust bearing on the end of the shaft opposite the chuck. This would apply all the thrust to the shaft and transfer all the thrust down through the shaft and create no thrust on the motor bearings. You would still have a little bit of thrust on those bearings depending on how fast the whole assembly accelerates or reverses direction.
-jim

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

A great idea, and I understand... But it's typically not possible or logical. Most of these folks are either simply bolting the motor down to a slide plate and strokig it with air or hydraulics or bolting it to a stand and stroking the part into the tooling. They want a very simple set up with no moving parts at times (such as when they manually slide the part into the tooling.)
To set it up so that it pushes the shaft would essentially be making a more expensive and complicated set-up similar to what I sell as an AutoDrill. ...Something I'm not keen on doing. :)
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You might consider replacing the outside motor bearing with a angle contact bearing. These bearing take axial loading by design
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
You say you understand, but it's fairly clear that you don't.
I haven't seen anyone suggest that the force to feed the chuck into the workpiece, be applied to shaft at the back end of a double-shaft motor.
A motor mounted to a slide, as you say the customers are interested in using, would still utilize the feed force applied to the slide.. but a thrust bearing could be mounted to the front or rear of the motor case.. or anchored to the slide in the case of a dual-shaft motor (or a motor with an exposed shaft end at the back).
Generally, the end bells of general purpose motors aren't designed for significant thrust loads. The customers will likely need a good supply of spare motors, unless a properly designed motor is utilized for repeated significant thrust loads.
Adding a thrust bearing to the front or rear of a motor case (supported/reinforced by the motor case) wouldn't be difficult.
--
WB
.........


"Joe AutoDrill" < snipped-for-privacy@yunx.com> wrote in message
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You are correct... I didn't and still really don't....
Are you saying a thrust bearing should simply go outside the motor case supporting it but not tied to the shaft? If not, I presume you are suggesting replacing the existing bearing inside with one?
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Geeeesh! Take a cheap drill apart and look at the end of the shaft!
You should see an end bearing in the form of a ball bearing (see the shiny object that is spherical in shape?) You know what a drill is, right?
------------------ "Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message You are correct... I didn't and still really don't....
Are you saying a thrust bearing should simply go outside the motor case supporting it but not tied to the shaft? If not, I presume you are suggesting replacing the existing bearing inside with one?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 14:11:13 -0400, Joe AutoDrill wrote:

__________________ / \ _ ___ | | | | / \ ==| |====| || >----- | | |_| \___/ \__________________/
motor external chuck drill bearing
This is what's being suggested. Mount your motor to it's support plate. Choose a thrust bearing through which the motor shaft will pass, and which will support the chuck in thrust, either by supporting the shaft, by letting the chuck ride on the bearing (bad style), or by attaching the chuck to a shaft which passes through (and is supported by) the bearing and is nailed down to the motor.
The "bearing at the rear" variation just puts the thrust bearing at the back, and leaves you hoping that nothing buckles.
--
www.wescottdesign.com

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Friday, August 12, 2011 8:25:25 AM UTC-7, Joe AutoDrill wrote:

The shaft through a motor can be destabilized by putting lots of force on it (Euler buckling), so it might be preferable to put a secondary shaft with a thrust bearing on the mount plate, and a flexible shaft coupling from the secondary shaft to the motor. That moves the motor back a few inches from the mount plate, but otherwise solves the problem (moves the axial load from the motor rotor to the external thrust-rated bearing).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.