Newbie : tool cleaning



Hello Don I'm living in a french oversea country beetween madagascar and Mauritius island In france there is no problem to get a metalworking equipement but in reunion island : it's quite impossible with 12000 kilometers (in a strait line) from France everything turn to be difficult By plane the shipping price is more than expensive for equipements witch weight is over 250 Kg There is no local reseller from any of the well known factories I am an hobbyist, what in french, we call a "bricoleur" doing some little thing but wanting to do some things more difficult My first idea was to buy a micro lathe and a mini drill, but damned, I was astonished by the prices A mini drill and a mini lathe are more expensive than a medium manual drill and lathe with their standart accessories My next idea was to try buy one drill and one lathe from France, my third idea was to buy them directly from Singapour or one other eastern country In any case I stopped my dream with the amount of shipping and to find a trading agent The next idea was to buy a drill and use it like a mill The previous posts upon the subject were precious for understanding that I was in wrong (I loosed my chuck falling down every minute but I was thinking than the chuck was bad) What a curse to be in a charming island with a lot of sun but far from anywhere ,-)
Jean-Luc

answers
;-)
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    And, according to my wife, it is a volcanic island. Hopefully it will remain inactive while you are there.

    I can imagine that. Have you looked into the costs of shipping by sea? That might be more affordable, if significantly slower.

    My wife found that word unfamiliar, so she went to a dictionary which she keeps handy, and that suggested "handyman" as the English translation. A subtle difference, but it suggests that you will need the ability to use these tools sooner rather than later.

    I can understand that. It is very frustrating to not be able to do something because of a lack of the proper tools.

    That could be because fewer of them are sold -- especially in the markets in which you are looking.
    Have you compared the prices at the various US sellers? (Ones like Harbor Freight maintain web sales sites which should allow you to check their prices, at least.)
    However, for shipping, perhaps Australia would be your best bet. They tend to have a lot of the same Chinese and Taiwanese machines which are sold by US vendors like Harbor Freight, and the shipping cost to you would probably be less. I don't know what the exchange rate would be like.
    My wife suggested South Africa, but we have had posters here who have had problems getting machine tools -- other than used ones imported from the UK some years before.
    I don't know whether you care whether the tools are calibrated in Imperial units (inches and thousandths), or metric units (mm and hundredths). That might determine where you buy, because the Australian ones would be more likely to be Metric, while most in the US are Imperial.

    You are lucky that the chuck did not chase you around the room with a sharp cutter mounted. Others have had that experience.

    I would be very frustrated. Or -- I probably would re-focus my interests onto more affordable hobbies. Photography -- especially digital photography with today's digital SLR cameras, involves fewer expensive purchases overall, (though the first few are killers), and the weight is minimal.
    Of course, you *could* try the series of books by Gingery dealing with building your own machine shop from scratch. They start with teaching you to melt and cast scrap aluminum, and to use that to build machine tools, starting with a lathe. It would be some time before you had a lathe or a milling machine (they also teach how to build a shaper), but he shipping costs would be minimal. Paper weighs a lot less than sufficient cast iron to make the tools which you need.
    Is there a classified ads section in your local newspaper? Is there a possibility that someone else may already have such tools and be looking to sell them (perhaps after moving up to a larger version)?
    Given the shipping costs, perhaps a 3-in-1 tool (lathe, drill press, and mill) would be a better choice for you, in spite of the known problems with such machines. At least, you would be paying only once. (Though most who have started with a 3-in-1 machine have moved on to separate machines after a while.
    Best of luck,         DoN.
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snip--

Brilliant! In spite of my dislike for such tools, this is a classic example of where one might benefit by owning one. I heartily endorse the idea.
Harold
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Actually an Emco - if he has the money - would give him a good lathe plus an OK vertical milling machine. Preferably a Maximat 11 but you can do an awful lot with a Compact 8.
As for freight from Australia, should be possible if time isn't of the essence. The other consideration is that we're 240V 50 Hz power, dunno about Reunion Island. Getting a 240V - 110V transformer is a piece of cake tho, I have a number of them lying about at work for visiting Americans to use. Machines here are a mixture of metric & Imperial, a lot with metric dials but imperial leadscrews due to demand but pure metric machines are available. Since you can fit a DRO and swap between metric & imperial at the push of a button, IMO it makes sense to get the leadscrew you'll use most for the threads you're planning on cutting and getting by for the other ones.
Indicative price for a lathe/mill/drill from Hare & Forbes Sydney is $AUD 1295. I really can't see how machines of this type can be satisfactory milling machines. Drill presses & lathes, ok, but unless you pack the mill table waaaaay up off the cross slide, how do you get a milling cutter to the work? The Emco units have the head independent on its own column. Serious money, tho.
The following URL has an interesting machine option at the top. I've seen these and they're more useful, IMO, than the 3-in-1.
http://www.hareandforbes.com.au/sample_2/home.php
PDW
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But not with the milling arificial limb on the Compact 8. I have one, used the "mill". Years ago the mill has got its own table and is serving as drill press. This works. But that piece of crap would not withstand side load, the mills get pulled out etc. No please!
The mill for the maximat-series is something really different. The same head was used on Emco's PF2 (or was it FP2 or the like?). This thing looks good, but the PITA with dual use remains ...
Nick
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Yeah, agree about the dual use headache. I never used a Compact 8 milling head, only the Maximat 11 as a friend of mine had one. They did use the same head on the FP2 mill, IIRC. There was also a reasonable Taiwanese knockoff copy available at one point some years ago.
PDW
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Scotch 3M pads (grade 100 to 1000) are excellent for removing rust. Forget the paper.
Nick
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On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:00:14 -0500, Randy Replogle

ROFLMAO!!!!!
Gunner
The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long
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There are new folks on this group, asshole. Treat them like you would treat your own friends, not some off the wall dickhead advice.
Aftershock
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"> There are new folks on this group, asshole. Treat them like you would

God, I hope you never ask my friends how I treat THEM! ....and just WHAT was wrong with my advice? Everybody knows that wire brushes get dull quickly and must be resharpened by a pro or use new ones frequently. (Aftershock, you think I'm kidding, don't you?) So, before you call somebody an "asshole", know what you're talking about. I'm one of the best in the whole frigging WORLD at what I do...what can you say about YOURSELF???
oh, by the way....bite me!
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Tom Gardner wrote:

Wow, he really told you, you OK Tom?
Dumb ol' bully, if he'd have said that to me I might have done something about it, pretty soon.. lucky for him he didn't, yeah boy, I'd have told him..
John
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Tom Gardner (nospam) wrote: Everybody knows that wire brushes get dull

Tom:
How about some info on the resharpening? I reverse the reversible ones and have occasionally run a hand stone lightly against one before reversing, but I'm guessing there's more to it than that.
John Martin
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On 13 Aug 2005 06:38:51 -0700, the opaque "John Martin"

Everyone knows that 6 strokes from a diamond micro-file on each side of each wire of the brush is the best way to sharpen them.
Note to Tom: Record the breakins with a $69 recorder TODAY ONLY! http://www.isellsurplus.com/product.asp?id 185&c
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I am looking at a PC based DVR eight camera system with cool software that can do all kinds of stuff in addition to triggering an alarm with ADT. http://www.worldeyecam.com/gv_800_dvr_card.htm
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Are you sure the guards and the thiefs are not the same people... cs
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 15:38:25 GMT, the opaque "Tom Gardner"

Oh, x2.

That's about 9 minutes too late. How about sliding bar grates for the interior perimeter. Once the PIR goes off, it drops the bars around the building, maybe holding the perps in long enough for an armed escort out. Only cost $10/11,000 and a man-month to do.

Move the PIRs after each burglary. I'd suggest fencing in the interior of the building (barewalled factory?) and the perimeter but tool-wielding burglars breaking into a metalworking factory would have too many tools at their disposal already.
Here's one solution to cat burglars: http://www.big-boys.com/pictures/picture1217.html (Gunner oughta like it a lot.)
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Reversing a wheel is the first step to the trash but then the brush was misused anyway. As soon as the wire starts to lay down, it is no longer a cutting tool but now a burnishing tool. So, the operator just naturally applies more pressure. A slippery slope to the trash. Try and find the right mix of speed, wire dia., wire length and wire alloy. There's the rub, that's a lot of variables so you compromise with a sacrificial general purpose brush. That's ok. In another world, a process needs to get "X" number of parts done with a brush before shut down and brush change. That's where fine tuning the brush variables pays off.
All wire brushes, power and hand, the sharp corners on the ends of the wire do the work. As the work is done the edges become rounded and the cutting action changes. Thus if the wire ends are ground square again before the slippery slope, the brush will do more, consistent work with less energy. So, sharpen your brushes or buy a lot of new ones! Sound advise, but some people think I'm being smart-assed.
Just don't tell anybody!

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On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:52:24 GMT, the opaque "Tom Gardner"

So you sharpen wire brushes via a grinding wheel? Please expand. Delicately, in reverse direction, and by hand, so it leaves the wire edge on the cutting side, or what?
And how do cup brushes work on angle grinders at the 11kRPM speeds? It would seem that even knotted brushes would be sent, er, akimbo at that speed.

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clearly wrote:

Well, it's often best to just sacrifice the brush...thank GOD! But, for a bench grinder wheel just chuck it up in the lathe and spin it slowly and touch an angle grinder to the tips of the wires, just a few thousandths, to square-up the wire tips. Do you see why a reversed wire wheel works so good for a while? If the wire is tending to lay over, try heavier gauge wire or shorter trim length rather than more pressure.
For a hand brush, just wipe it on the side of a grinding wheel in both directions, being careful not to over heat the tips of the wire.
For wire cups in grinders you don't have the option of reversing so you use heavier or better wire or go to knot-type. Sometimes higher speed is detrimental to the operation, there are graphs of surface-feet/minute for average brushing jobs as a starting point to then be fine tuned.
The big-unknown to most people is the alloy. The cheap brushes that you see people complaining about here lately are most likely imports using hard-drawn wire that is 1/4 the cost of good oil-tempered wire but looks the same. Ask Gunner the difference, he's used them both. Hard-drawn has some advantages as does oil-tempered. Try and see the cost of a "brushing operation" and the cost of the brush is only a part of the mix. Sometimes a big part of the cost, sometimes not. Just like the rest of life, nothing is assured.
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On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:43:18 GMT, "Tom Gardner"

Indeed! Great brushes. I figure that Im about 4 or 5 to one, imported brushes versus Toms brushes, based on rust/slag removal and how often I have to trash one of his. I was buying them 6 at a time from the hardware store, and now I replace one of Toms after completing 4-5 times the work.
Gunner
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