No spark (distributor question)

Spark plugs are made in what is called "heat ranges". Read

Running rich most likely (float too high?) or possibly pumping oil. Try a warmer plug. Champion F16 or even D21 instead of the original

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Running rich and burning oil give different exhaust smells. Oil smells like -- burnt oil, a rich mixture smells like solvents, applying the choke gives you an example. You can briefly hold your hand in the exhaust and then sniff it. A modern car exhaust is the standard for proper combustion.

Thanks Jim. So if my exhaust smells the same as when I leave the choke on, then maybe it's a carb problem? (I'm resisting the urge to make some fart joke.)

George H.

Oil smoke is blue - rich fuel smoke is black. Check the exhaust - if its "dry" and black it's running rich. If it's gooey it's oil. If it's burning oil switch to a heavier oil (I'd run 15w40 or 20W50) and I'd also try putting some Marvel Mystery Oil in the oil for an hour or two before draining the oil - It's pretty darn good at freeing uup stuck piston rings which WILL make the engine burn oil. How many hours are on the little TO20 and has it ever been rebuilt? How has it been maintained? The Continental z120 is a pretty tough little engine but it's been around a LONG time!!!

I do love this old tractor. I had the head rebuilt a few years ago. With any luck she'll out live me. :^)

George H.

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Thanks for the TO20 recommendation. I used my machine shop to build a hydraulic front end loader attachment for my 18HP garden tractor to clear snow, for which it worked quite well, however the tractor isn't heavy or strong enough to more than scratch at our rocky New England soil.

I'm looking at small Kubotas but would consider anything for which I can still get parts that I can't make. For instance although I machined a new steering sector gear and linkage for it I can't harden and temper such parts very well in my wood stove.

If it's like the Lucas distributors I'm familiar with then the advance unit can seize on the central spindle normally through lack of oiling the centre shaft. Usually easy to dismantle, clean out any congealed lubricant, oil and re-assemble and you should have functional advance.

<Huge snip>

Found a nice service manual here (~55mb):

=== Per that manual you should have a "Delco-Remy Model No. 1111722 with crankshaft rotation advance of 26 and 24 degrees respectively, both models are fully automatic..

The centrifugal advance mechanism is in- corporated in the distributor to automatically vary the timing of the spark with respect to the position of the piston in the cylinder. At high speeds, the spark must occur at the plug earlier in the compression stroke In order for the fuel mixture to deliver full power. The advance mechanism consists of an ad- vance cam, breaker cam, a pair of ' advance weights, springs and a weight base that is In- tegral with the distributor shaft.

At low speeds, the advance weights are held in to- ward the center by the spring tension. As the speed of the distributor shaft increases, the centrifugal force overcomes the spring tension and the weights move outward and the toggles on the weights engage the advance cam. This rotates the advance cam and break- er cam which in turn allows the breaker cam to open and close the contact points earlier, thus advancing the spark... ===

Maybe help you out some ;-)

I really suspect it is oil. Interesting to know what oil is being run and when it was last changed. Like I noted before I'd be putting some MMO in the oil and running it for a few hours, then drain the oil and refill with 15w40 all fleet (like rotella T) or 20W50 Castrol GTX or similar and see what happens. Quite possible the valve guide seals are poor but he DID say he had the head rebuilt recently so more likely the rings. The rings tend to sludge up and stick - and the MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) or Shaler Rislone can loosen the rings. I used to use Rislone years back but MMO is a lot less harsh and just as effective.

Oh I'm not sure it's a recommendation. It's just what I stumbled upon. And yes it's very nice that the local Massey-Ferguson dealer still has parts for it. (And knowledgeable guys behind the counter.) Old tractors are nice 'cause they use to let a model run for several years... and there were lots of them made.

Bad things, it has no (external) hydraulics, and the pto/ hydraulic pump share the pto power... so you have to engage the pto to raise the 3-pt hitch. The lift(3-pt hitch) only has raise and lower positions... but I added this gizmo that does some feedback and allows for intermediate heights.

The brakes* are kinda wimpy... but maybe this is typical of tractors?

It's got a six speed transmission. (I've never had it in 5th 'road' gear.) Which I hear is preferred to the four speed Ford 9-N, but I've never driven a 9-N so don't know.

George H.

*I only fixed the brakes a few years ago... who needs brakes? My son wanted to drive the tractor for "take your tractor to school day" But it was a rainy crappy day and didn't happen.

Thanks! I've got that manual.. but it cost me ~$20. So these cams and springs are down inside the distro somewhere. (maybe I'll give it a look see... now I've had it apart once. :^)

George H.

I changed the oil and filter last year... I filled it with cheap

10W-30. OK when I change the oil again... a few years, I'll try some of your magic oil. (Well maybe... maybe it's better to leave sleeping dogs lie?)

Thanks for all the nice 'tractor talk'. My neighbor down the road had a Ferggie too, but he passed away few years ago and everyone else around here has newer fancier tractors.

George H.

<snip>

Oh bummer... though the electronic one can be searched (watch for spelling errors). I've found that a big help at times when looking for some things...

If you really weren't seeing the timing advance any when you had a timing light on it while revved up... You should sort that out :)

<Huge snip>

Found a nice service manual here (~55mb):

=== Per that manual you should have a "Delco-Remy Model No. 1111722 with crankshaft rotation advance of 26 and 24 degrees respectively, both models are fully automatic..

The centrifugal advance mechanism is in- corporated in the distributor to automatically vary the timing of the spark with respect to the position of the piston in the cylinder. At high speeds, the spark must occur at the plug earlier in the compression stroke In order for the fuel mixture to deliver full power. The advance mechanism consists of an ad- vance cam, breaker cam, a pair of ' advance weights, springs and a weight base that is In- tegral with the distributor shaft.

At low speeds, the advance weights are held in to- ward the center by the spring tension. As the speed of the distributor shaft increases, the centrifugal force overcomes the spring tension and the weights move outward and the toggles on the weights engage the advance cam. This rotates the advance cam and break- er cam which in turn allows the breaker cam to open and close the contact points earlier, thus advancing the spark... ===

Maybe help you out some ;-)

Bad things, it has no (external) hydraulics, and the pto/ hydraulic pump share the pto power... so you have to engage the pto to raise the 3-pt hitch. The lift(3-pt hitch) only has raise and lower positions... but I added this gizmo that does some feedback and allows for intermediate heights.

The brakes* are kinda wimpy... but maybe this is typical of tractors?

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I was descending a steep hill when the brake band disintegrated into a trail of little pieces behind me. Didn't need it, engine braking was enough. I know I didn't crash and die because I get myself into situations I wouldn't dream of.

My tractor hydraulics grew from the crankshaft stub shaft that held the mower deck drive pulley. I made pulleys to fit it and a hydraulic pump I had salvaged, and reworked an old 2-lever valve assembly by making a variable pressure relief to drop it down from fixed 3000 to 800~1000 PSI. Once I turned it up to 1600 PSI to muscle out of a snowbank and blew the front tires. The oil intake screen is in a 2" pipe tee, with the drain at the bottom. The lift cylinders are worn-out porta-power jacks with new seals.

Hydraulics can be fairly cheap if you don't have to match existing components, or can rework the mounting and drive.

If you can find yourself a little MF35 or 135 you've got it made. 3 cyl Perkins deisel or gas.

On the 35 you get draft and position control, dual clutch (for Live PTO) Dual range gear box, and the option of the 2.5 liter Perkins. made until 1965

The 135 was made until 1975 and is a bit heavier - same transmission and engine options. The 235 followed - much the same tractor with different sheet metal. All very capable little tractors.

A 1954-58 Oliver 55 Super would also be a good option but parts availability would not be as good. The 550was a nice tractor too - from '58 to '75. A bonus of the 550 is power steering. Just don't waste any time looking at a Cockshutt 540.

Personally I wouldn't use 10W30 in that tractor, and with the little use you give it I'd change it every spring. I've never had MMO cause a problem in an engine - and I've used a lot of it over the last 50 years. I'd run Rotella T3 or T4 15W40 or Valvoline 15W40 all fleet premium or E900. That engine wants the ZDDP levels up around 1000 or more. You won't get that in any current 10W30 or any current "automotive" oil less than 20W50. The crancase ventilation is sub-par so moisture build-up and sludging can be an issue if you don't change it often and only use it sporadically for short jobs.

I think it hits max advance at about 2000 RPM -

Hmm OK I don't know how the advancement works. A rainy day here and I'll take the distributor apart and look inside. The rotor seems locked to the shaft/ gear that goes into the engine block. But according to the service manual I should be able to advance the rotor a little by hand and have it spring back... The rotor doesn't move... except with the engine.

More later. George H.

Likely the lubricant between the 2 part has congealed or it has rusted. You'll need to dismantle it and clean it up, re-lube and put it back together. I posted the same on the 28th but I guess you didn't see it.