No spark (distributor question)

wrote in message wrote:


Thanks Jim. So if my exhaust smells the same as when I leave the choke on, then maybe it's a carb problem? (I'm resisting the urge to make some fart joke.)
George H.
================================Ben Franklin couldn't resist: https://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/to-the-royal-academy-of-farting/
Maybe the carb, or a clogged air filter. Does it backfire?
Normally gas containing 10% ethanol can make an old engine not designed for it run leaner and lose power. Could a previous owner have tinkered with it, perhaps drilled out the main jet?
Blowing out the small passages in a carb with compressed air often solves its problems. First buy a carb rebuild kit so you can replace any torn gaskets or lost tiny parts. It seems like things I buy precautionary spares for don't break, which is fine by me. It might help to ask someone with experience to show you how to work on the carb, though I learned from a book. Reassembling the float valve is tricky.
I bought a used log splitter for only the cost of its brand new replacement engine because it had a difficult carb problem from the factory, which I finally diagnosed as a leak in the brass carburetor float that let it sink and raise the gas level in the bowl until the mixture was too rich to run. I'd added a shutoff to the fuel line to help work on it. After sitting for a week or two the carb gas evaporated and it would start just fine, then bog down and stall again in a few minutes. I found gasoline in the float by shaking it.
The leak was impossible to locate, even submerging the dried-out float in water in a transparent vacuum chamber didn't reveal bubbling, but the replacement cost only about $3 and the splitter has served well for 20+ years since.
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On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 07:54:10 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Oil smoke is blue - rich fuel smoke is black. Check the exhaust - if its "dry" and black it's running rich. If it's gooey it's oil. If it's burning oil switch to a heavier oil (I'd run 15w40 or 20W50) and I'd also try putting some Marvel Mystery Oil in the oil for an hour or two before draining the oil - It's pretty darn good at freeing uup stuck piston rings which WILL make the engine burn oil. How many hours are on the little TO20 and has it ever been rebuilt? How has it been maintained? The Continental z120 is a pretty tough little engine but it's been around a LONG time!!!
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"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
Oil smoke is blue - rich fuel smoke is black. ================The faint blue color of oil smoke can be hard to detect, depending on the lighting and background color. I just noticed it in a newscast ad video for a lumberjack competition when chainsaw startup exhaust drifted across a white poster. I usually don't see my saw's cold startup exhaust as blue or black against the natural background of green, grey and brown. But then condensation coming out of my chimney looks white against the sky from down sun, greyish against the trees from up sun.
Unless you're a smoker the sniff test can be more sensitive, indicating the rich or leanness of the mixture when the exhaust is clear.
You can search for other people's postings on that engine and tractor. I'm trying to not burn through too much of my metered 4G internet, since my unmetered dialup ISP shut down. https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?tt5772
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On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 7:51:44 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Thanks Jim, I've been to yesterday's tractor... nice place for used parts. (or it use to be.)
Re: phone internet. I've got satellite here.(Huhges net) This improved a few years ago when Blue Horizon... (or some other company) came into the market and offered a service that still has 'reasonable' speeds even after you've used up your daily/ monthly data allowance.
Not cheap though.. $60-90/ month
George H.
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Re: phone internet. I've got satellite here.(Huhges net) This improved a few years ago when Blue Horizon... (or some other company) came into the market and offered a service that still has 'reasonable' speeds even after you've used up your daily/ monthly data allowance.
Not cheap though.. $60-90/ month
George H.
=====================Glad to help, and to hear that what I wrote was comprehensible. I flunked Technical Writing in college and post here for practice.
I feel cheated by monthly TV/phone/net bills higher than what I pay for electricity ($40). My computer-clueless neighbor's difficulties with Internet-only government and commercial interactions indicate that Net access is becoming a basic necessity. Perhaps that's intentional because it drives people to carry smart phones that report their location.
During the last extended power outage when power, cable and phone lines were down I couldn't find any useful weather info on the radio, but my 3G cellular Internet gave me a radar image of what precipitation was coming and about how soon it would arrive. I knew when to clean up fallen trees and repair roof damage and when to cover it with a tarp.
I was on the predecessor of wireless Internet in 1972 when I maintained an experimental Army digital tactical (mobile) communications network. During exercises we were encouraged to chat with other nodes via Teletype to generate random traffic.
The unit I was with drove up a dirt path to a forested mountaintop near the Iron Curtain and set up the equivalent of a cellular tower, communications center and its support village.
https://www.militaryaerospace.com/rf-analog/article/16715796/army-revisits-troposcatter-communications-technology-as-alternative-to-longrange-satcom
"Military forces have been using troposcatter communications in various forms since the 1960s to transmit voice and data without the use of satellites or high-frequency (HF) radio signals."
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On Monday, April 27, 2020 at 9:08:16 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:

Hi Clare, others. I tried the smell test the other day. It's got more of an oily smell than the gas I smell when I leave the choke on. TBH the black plugs are not that much of a problem. I clean 'em in the spring and maybe another time during the summer. I did check the float level and that looked spot on. I do love this old tractor. I had the head rebuilt a few years ago. With any luck she'll out live me. :^)
George H.
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I do love this old tractor. I had the head rebuilt a few years ago. With any luck she'll out live me. :^)
George H.
===============================Thanks for the TO20 recommendation. I used my machine shop to build a hydraulic front end loader attachment for my 18HP garden tractor to clear snow, for which it worked quite well, however the tractor isn't heavy or strong enough to more than scratch at our rocky New England soil.
I'm looking at small Kubotas but would consider anything for which I can still get parts that I can't make. For instance although I machined a new steering sector gear and linkage for it I can't harden and temper such parts very well in my wood stove.
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On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 6:12:57 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Oh I'm not sure it's a recommendation. It's just what I stumbled upon. And yes it's very nice that the local Massey-Ferguson dealer still has parts for it. (And knowledgeable guys behind the counter.) Old tractors are nice 'cause they use to let a model run for several years... and there were lots of them made.
Bad things, it has no (external) hydraulics, and the pto/ hydraulic pump share the pto power... so you have to engage the pto to raise the 3-pt hitch. The lift(3-pt hitch) only has raise and lower positions... but I added this gizmo that does some feedback and allows for intermediate heights.
The brakes* are kinda wimpy... but maybe this is typical of tractors?
It's got a six speed transmission. (I've never had it in 5th 'road' gear.) Which I hear is preferred to the four speed Ford 9-N, but I've never driven a 9-N so don't know.
George H.
*I only fixed the brakes a few years ago... who needs brakes? My son wanted to drive the tractor for "take your tractor to school day" But it was a rainy crappy day and didn't happen.
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Bad things, it has no (external) hydraulics, and the pto/ hydraulic pump share the pto power... so you have to engage the pto to raise the 3-pt hitch. The lift(3-pt hitch) only has raise and lower positions... but I added this gizmo that does some feedback and allows for intermediate heights.
The brakes* are kinda wimpy... but maybe this is typical of tractors?
=============I was descending a steep hill when the brake band disintegrated into a trail of little pieces behind me. Didn't need it, engine braking was enough. I know I didn't crash and die because I get myself into situations I wouldn't dream of.
My tractor hydraulics grew from the crankshaft stub shaft that held the mower deck drive pulley. I made pulleys to fit it and a hydraulic pump I had salvaged, and reworked an old 2-lever valve assembly by making a variable pressure relief to drop it down from fixed 3000 to 800~1000 PSI. Once I turned it up to 1600 PSI to muscle out of a snowbank and blew the front tires. The oil intake screen is in a 2" pipe tee, with the drain at the bottom. The lift cylinders are worn-out porta-power jacks with new seals.
Hydraulics can be fairly cheap if you don't have to match existing components, or can rework the mounting and drive. https://www.baileyhydraulics.com/CHIEF-Gear-Pump-3-4-Dia-Keyed-Shaft-0-85-CID-6-6-2000-RPM-3600-PSI-CCW-Rotation
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On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:11:58 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

If you can find yourself a little MF35 or 135 you've got it made. 3 cyl Perkins deisel or gas.
On the 35 you get draft and position control, dual clutch (for Live PTO) Dual range gear box, and the option of the 2.5 liter Perkins. made until 1965
The 135 was made until 1975 and is a bit heavier - same transmission and engine options. The 235 followed - much the same tractor with different sheet metal. All very capable little tractors.
A 1954-58 Oliver 55 Super would also be a good option but parts availability would not be as good. The 550was a nice tractor too - from '58 to '75. A bonus of the 550 is power steering. Just don't waste any time looking at a Cockshutt 540.
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"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
Thanks for the TO20 recommendation. I used my machine shop to build a hydraulic front end loader attachment for my 18HP garden tractor to clear snow, for which it worked quite well, however the tractor isn't heavy or strong enough to more than scratch at our rocky New England soil.
=====================================================Aha, my old Picasa photos are still around: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipN8cE1m884JQD9sAPcGK-eBVbY20vTCs_j1loIT The bucket is stainless to survive road salt, arc welded with 312 rod. It will lift and dump all the fresh snow it can hold, or about half a bucket of packed snowbank.
The visible trailer tire is the one I had trouble with. Once sunlight returned I could see a forest of fine whiskers of molding sprue rubber in the bead area, at least two of which had been squished radially between the rim and bead over its full width and left indented channels which may have been the slow leak path. I snipped off the sprues, smeared latex along the bead, remounted the tire without a tube, and it's holding pressure.
My error was not inflating and deflating the tube to position it before levering the bead back into the rim. A tire lever pinched the still folded tube. I should have fixed the air compressor -before- tackling the tire. With luck the large round patch in the kit I bought will salvage the tube.
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=====================================================Aha, my old Picasa photos are still around: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipN8cE1m884JQD9sAPcGK-eBVbY20vTCs_j1loIT
Sharing enabled? https://photos.app.goo.gl/ADDqcqbkWemoD2eC6
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On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 8:32:21 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Nice. Let me ask a welding question. Being bored and at home from college (freshman) my son has turned to welding. (I bought us helmets a few years ago, we've got an old Dayton AC/DC stick welder. and some real old stick... but new stuff is on the way from amazon. 6011 1/8".) Anyway there are like a bazillion stick welding videos, and if anyone has a series or person they like... please tell me. We're totally idiot beginners. Mostly farm repair kinda stuff. Well and 'the boy' wants to mod an old lawn tractor.
George H.
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wrote in message
On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 8:32:21 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Nice. Let me ask a welding question. Being bored and at home from college (freshman) my son has turned to welding. (I bought us helmets a few years ago, we've got an old Dayton AC/DC stick welder. and some real old stick... but new stuff is on the way from amazon. 6011 1/8".) Anyway there are like a bazillion stick welding videos, and if anyone has a series or person they like... please tell me. We're totally idiot beginners. Mostly farm repair kinda stuff. Well and 'the boy' wants to mod an old lawn tractor.
George H.
================================================I tried to learn stick welding in college but didn't really get it. When area voc-techs began offering adult night classes I took machining and welding classes repeatedly until I could do something useful without an instructor looking over my shoulder, observing and correcting my mistakes which a video can't do.
Before welding the main frame for that loader, a U of 2" square tubing that holds the oil, I used all but the last session to practice welding butt joints with 7018 rod, and then bending them to destruction with the shop's 50 ton press. Once I had full but not excessive bead penetration from one side and could fold the test samples double along the weld without cracking I welded the frame. I'm still very far from being a good welder.
7018 absorbs moisture unless stored air-tight. Of the rods that can be stored open I found 6013 and 7014 the easiest and neatest. I didn't do very well with 6011.
Besides the welder you need something to cut steel. I bought a used 4" x 6" horizontal bandsaw of better than their average quality to cut bar and tubing stock squarely and accurately. In the vertical position it can cut flat plate free-hand, limited by the minimal left side clearance to the frame. An abrasive chop saw also works, but not a wood-cutting bandsaw unless you reduce its speed to 1/10th.
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On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 8:14:22 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Hah, we're having a hard time getting the arc going with out sticking the rod to the piece. "Stop, stuck the rod again" says my son. :^) It's kinda like sticking the landing in ice skating.. but opposite. Once going he seems to be much better (than me) at laying down a nice bead.

Thanks for that. Well a new order of 6011 is on the way and will be here soon. We'll see if that works any better. I was trying to talk my son into a night class or something... there's a place 'up the road' near Rochester NY. We'll see. Most of what I want to do is crude 'farm' repair. He has more ambitious dreams (which is fine) of building stuff.
Re: bandsaw and cutting. At home I've only used the reciprocating saw (~sawzall) with a metal blade. (slow)
George H.
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Re: bandsaw and cutting. At home I've only used the reciprocating saw (~sawzall) with a metal blade. (slow)
George H. =============================The nearly essential power tool for welding is an angle grinder. I have a 4-1/2" one for precision and control, and a 7" one for speed. A decent quality 4-1/2" is a good start. They grind or wire-brush through rust quickly and are the eraser for your welding mistakes. They can slice steel free-hand with a cut-off blade, or you can buy a holder that turns them into a small chop saw for better accuracy. They soon pay back their cost in the clothing (and skin) that wasn't ripped by rough cut edges and welds. They are quite versatile, mine has cut concrete sewer pipe and smoothed a rough stone step.
A bandsaw is better for thicker steel like building a hydraulic log splitter, abrasive disks are good for thinner metal such as EMT conduit or corrugated roofing that could strip saw blade teeth. Both can cut 1/8" angle iron or water pipe.
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On Fri, 1 May 2020 18:32:06 -0700 (PDT) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
<snip>

My favorite youtuber and has his own website is Jody:

https://www.youtube.com/user/weldingtipsandtricks/videos

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/stick-welding.html
Try to keep your rods in a dry place. Not out in a damp work shed. Mine are kept in the bedroom with a plastic bag tightly wrapped, tied around them after opening...
6013 rods have a tendency to worm hole and can be tough to see what's happening in the puddle. But you can get them 1/16 inch, which can be handy for thinner material and laying in a root for narrow grooves...
Your 6011 1/8 rods should be fine for getting started :)
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 8:48:24 AM UTC-4, Leon Fisk wrote:

Thanks I'll check him out. I figure there's lotsa stuff I'd like to do that is just filling in rusted out steel. An old snow plow number one on the list. Like filling in rotted out wood there's an endless list of projects.
George H.
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Well and 'the boy' wants to mod an old lawn tractor.
George H.
========================There are "Lawn", "Yard" and "Garden" tractors, in order of increasing ruggedness. That is a Garden tractor with a substantial ladder frame and a low range in the manual transmission, meant to pull a small plow behind or carry a dozer blade or snow blower attachment on the front. The rear ag tires are the same size as the original turf treads. I started with a Lawn tractor whose stamped sheet metal chassis disintegrated from the stress of pulling that trailer through the woods. My neighbor has a Yard tractor with more HP but significantly less pulling power than mine.
I also inherited the 2005 replacement for that 1987 tractor. It differs from a Yard tractor in not having mulching or bagger attachments. Neither turns tightly enough to be a really good lawn mower. That's fine, I don't have a really good lawn.
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On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:20:06 -0700 (PDT) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
<Huge snip>

Found a nice service manual here (~55mb):
http://www.ntractorclub.com/manuals/tractors/Ferguson%20TE20,TO20,TO30%20Service%20Manual.pdf
==Per that manual you should have a "Delco-Remy Model No. 1111722 with crankshaft rotation advance of 26 and 24 degrees respectively, both models are fully automatic..
The centrifugal advance mechanism is in- corporated in the distributor to automatically vary the timing of the spark with respect to the position of the piston in the cylinder. At high speeds, the spark must occur at the plug earlier in the compression stroke In order for the fuel mixture to deliver full power. The advance mechanism consists of an ad- vance cam, breaker cam, a pair of ' advance weights, springs and a weight base that is In- tegral with the distributor shaft.
At low speeds, the advance weights are held in to- ward the center by the spring tension. As the speed of the distributor shaft increases, the centrifugal force overcomes the spring tension and the weights move outward and the toggles on the weights engage the advance cam. This rotates the advance cam and break- er cam which in turn allows the breaker cam to open and close the contact points earlier, thus advancing the spark... =Maybe help you out some ;-)
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI
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