Origin of Hex Head Nuts/bolts?

As one who has owned, ridden and maintained both English and Japanese bikes, I heartily agree.

English bike: Every 100 miles (or less) stop and re-attach the parts that have fallen off. Also, refill oil at every gas stop. Oh, and really try to avoid riding after dark - Lucas was the Prince of Darkness.

Japanese bike: (my experience is with Yamaha and Honda enduros) Ride, enjoy, stop for gas when needed. Occasionally (few times a season) go over bike and make sure nothing is starting to come loose. Can't recall anything ever falling off of my 500 single "stump puller". Change oil every 1000 miles - don't recall ever adding any between changes.

Ted

Interesting question. Since I was headed to the library last night, I thought I'd see what I could turn up. From a fastener book from about

Stan

No Jim , not who but *which* Hon-duh has the bulletproof charging system ?

All the ones I ever owned. We'll start with honda's entry into the US market, the honda dream. That would be a '64 CA95E to be precise.

That bike had a bulletproof charging system because they engineered two windings on the alternator - one that was run when the lights were "off" and then another, larger one that was switched in parallel with the first one when lights were turned on.

This one, single concept allowed them to entirely sidestep the moronic british zener diode fiasco. The regulator then only had to cope with the output variations from idle to full revs, and thus did not have to deal with the range of loads that could be switched on.

Anyone who sees the schematics of both types side by side can see that honda's was a direct response to the troubles that brit bike riders had to endure. Simple, trouble-free.

I rode that bike back and forth to work for two years, '81 and '82. Remember at that time this was an EIGHTEEN YEAR OLD vehicle, that was running the STOCK charging system, and never had had any electrical work done on it AT ALL. Bone stock. And the charging and ignition systems on it all performed perfectly.

And that my friend is as close as you can get to the holy grail.

As others have mentione in this thread, it was common practice to replace all the wiring in some brit bikes, right out of the box. That doesn't even qualify as a dixie cup in the grail business.

Jim

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Yep , I remember the Dream and since you replied in such a civil manner let me take the time to explain why I dislike Japanese bikes as much as I do. Years ago I had the occasion to visit a motorcycle salvage yard in search of some Japbike parts that were no longer available from the dealer , a common problem. The bikes there were divided into sections by make . There were hundreds and hundreds of bikes of all sizesand in all stages of disassembly . Some had been smashed but most had not. What struck me the most was that they were all Japanese . Honda, Kawasaki,Suzuki, and Yamaha. There weren't any Triumphs, or any Nortons, or any Ducatis, or ant Harleys, etc etc etc . I asked the owner why so many Jap bikes ended up in salvage yards and he replied " because their owners felt they were no longer worth fi

Oops, flubbed that post. I'll finish:

.....fixing. Last time I visited a bike salvage yard the same thing was true, lots and lots of motorcycles that were considered disposable by their owners but no * keepers * . There will always be a demand for good machines such as those produced In England, and in Germany, and in the USA simply because they're worth repairing and keeping , while much of the glitzy plastic stuff from the land of the rising sun will be tossed away in the same manner as the dixie cups you mentioned in your last post.

I never said they weren't good. I just said that british electrics simply sucked and I do stand by that statement. Also the one where I said that honda used the manifold deficiencies present in brit and american bikes at the time, as a 'hook' to gain entry into the US markets.

"You meet the nicest people on a honda" is not about personalities. It means you can ride a motorcycle and not be an electrical engineer.

The german electrics are a whole 'nother thing. The BMWs that were contemporary with the british zener diode thing had honest to god electrical systems, with tiny 60 watt, 6 volt excited field generators, and tiny jewel-like bosch electromechanical voltage regulators. Once again, those items were well engineered and outlasted their expected lifetime for me, many times. Indeed they were *over*engineered because I think the teutonic watt must have been about 1.3 US watts, or about 2.5 british watts. I regularly ran 60 watt H4 headlamps in my bikes which would leave nothing left over for charging, taillight, etc. but the battery never wanted for a charge.

The reason you find salvage yards full of jap bikes is simple, they just made and imported so damn many of them. Also of note was Honda Sr's edict, which was in force until he died, that customers *would* be able to purchase literally ANY part for ANY motorcycle, that his company ever made. From the factory.

That was his rule.

Jim

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That is correct, on old farm machinery etc. nearly all the hand-forged nuts and bolts I've seen had square heads.

We have several old hand- and horse-drawn wagons/carriages that all are held together with have square-headed nuts and bolts, but that have hex-head wheel nuts since you can fit a larger hex- than square headed nut into a round hub. These are all obviously handmade fasteners, and apparently the maker only made hex heads when he really had to.

By the way, those wheel nuts have left- and right- handed threads depending on what side of the carriage they are for, so that they won't unscrew themselves during forward driving. This in addition to locking pins and, in some cases, opposite-threaded, smaller diameter castellated locking nuts. Apparently, wheels coming off at speed was a Serious Incident, and some rather ingenious engineering was employed even on cheap, otherwise low-quality wagons. I've never seen such opposite-threaded nuts on modern carriage axles.

for what it's worth, chrysler products used LH and RH bolts to hold the wheels on for many years (certainly from mid thirties through sometime in the 50s) - note: "bolts" not "studs". it really confuses some tire stores when they can't understand why the impact wrench doesn't do anything to the "nuts"

snip

For what it's worth, I think Chrysler did this well into the 60's at least, and with lug nuts and studs as well.

They worked, but caused a LOT of trouble with owners and shops (of all description) the whole time they did it.

Sometimes people wouldn't have the right parts on hand, and would Mouse LH studs on the RH side and vice versa just to get it out the door, often even mixing them on the same wheel.

Erik

Up through at least 1967. I had a 1967 Dodge van with LH and RH lugnuts. OTOH, my 1970 Dodge had all RH lugnuts. So the change happened sometime between those two models.

Gary

The British MGA series, at least 1957 through 1961 (the two which I owned), used left-hand nuts on one side. I'm now trying to remember which side got the LH nuts and studs.

Enjoy, DoN.

No Irish Need Apply...

Hey. I resemble that remark!

Literally, "big nose" IIRC.

Amazing list.

Jim

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Hanguk=Korean Yonguk=Non Korean

Translated to me as "round eyed devil"

And (for the sake of more completeness) Septic==Septic Tank==Yank= derogatory term used for US engineers by British Engineers.

Regards Mark Rand RTFM

Amazing list of mostly derogatory terms mostly snipped. (Where did you find all of these, anyway? Have you been collecting them for years?) You hit a lot which I have never heard, even as part of the demographic which supposedly used them. And some are *very* antique, and almost certainly out of circulation by now.

I remember at least one couple which I wanted to comment on as I read the list. And I find myself wondering whether most of these are only used among the English-speaking people of the non-English-speaking countries specified.

Note that I have seen "ape" used to refer to the less civilized among the motorcycle riding public. In particular, the high-rise handlebars labeled "ape hangers".

Note that it could also come from Spanish -- as someone who is "con barba" is someone who wears a beard.

Ones like the following could have benefited form having the second (and subsequent) lines indented to show that they were continuations, e.g.

======================================================================

====================================================================== Would become: ======================================================================

======================================================================

thus minimizing confusion.

I have heard that it was supposed to be "Worshipful Oriental Gentleman", and that when it was introduced (intending to eliminate the derogatory terms then in use, the abbreviation was introduced in the same sentence. ( "... - wog for sort." )

Enjoy, DoN.

P.S. Is there *anyone* who you have not insulted by that collection. :-)

Google is your friend... use Racial + slurs as your search term

Also Mr. Charles.

Which reminds me of the term Pom or Pommy (sp?) Prisoner of Her Majesty or somesuch.

God I hope not, Id hate to have someone feel left out

Though I dont recall anything about one legged lesbian eskimos......

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell

Just to return to the orginal question, a quick patent search show patent #61504 Improved Bedstead Fastner, issued Jan 29, 1867, has a hex nut as a component.

Jeff

My understanding was that it stands for "Westernized Oriental Gentleman."

Jim

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On 5 Jun 2004 20:29:53 -0700, jim rozen stated, with eyes & arms akimbo:

If you dip 'em in Minwax do you get polywogs?

BTW, the origin of hex nuts was ca. 1692 in colonial Salem, MA. That was the real reason the witches were burned. (Hey, who wants their nuts hexed?)

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