OT: An answer to why the reduction in science and engineering majors in US universities

If you actually knew the facts, Pete, you wouldn't be shooting from the hip. Since you obviously don't, what would you like to know?

-- Ed Huntress

I worked for a college system for several years (from the board of trustees administrative end) and saw the significant issues caused by the union first hand, so don't try to tell me I don't know the facts. I saw enrollment going down the drain in various areas because of tenured faculty refusing to update themselves and teach up to date relevant material. I saw the board meetings trying to deal with the problems. I saw the union games when contracts came up for renewal (my area was happily non union and did vastly better).

Can engineers operate CNC?? :)

Mebbe when ICNAL gains steam (the Int'l Consortium for the Neutering of All Lawyers), there'll be plenty of per diem work for unlaid, I mean, laid off engineers--iffin you don't mind working for, uh, tips.

The American chapter, ANAL (Americans for the Neutering of All Lawyers), of which I am, uh, head, should be especially busy.

College is not public elementary and high schools. College experience isn't going to teach you anything about the NCLB, or the fact that it destroyed the "alternate route" certifications that were being used increasingly for public school science and math teachers -- exactly what Wes was talking about.

Tenure in colleges, historically, is about academic independence. Tenure in public schools, historically, is about putting an end to political patronage in hiring and firing teachers.

They have nothing to do with each other. So, what did you learn about high school science teacher requirements when you were working in a college system? That was the subject.

-- Ed Huntress

I can provide a data point. My son graduated from one of the more interesting engineering schools in May with an ECE. He had a job offer from all the places where he applied (3 or 4). He got his "dream job". All of his classmates had jobs upon graduating (if they were looking for one). A surprising number did not take the highest offer, but went for the job that gave them a challenge. My son told me at the time it was a seller's market.

Kevin Gallimore

Try reading the subject line, specifically the "US universities" part.

Engineers who are also competent CNC operators can operate CNC. The rest of us have to use hand-operated machines, or files.

If someone comes to you and says "I am a trained C# (pronounced 'cee sharp') programmer, so I can operate CNC" ask them if they're a lawyer. If they say "yes", put them on one of your machines that you don't care much about, but which will skewer the operator's balls if it is programmed wrong.

Then step aside, and let them demonstrate their quality.

That's good news for him. I wonder if the situation is that so few kids are taking engineering that it's improved the market for those who do. If that's the case, then it's still a good field to get into, but companies looking to hire engineers will still be screaming about the shortage of them.

-- Ed Huntress

That was about four messages ago. Wes, Tim Wescott, TMT, and I were talking about teaching engineering and science in public schools when you reacted to my comment about NCLB. Take a look at the quotes from previous messages above, to which you were responding.

-- Ed Huntress

Yes that would be an excelent idea BUT I wonder how many of them would put up with the BS that just exixting in the education business requires. :-) ...lew...(who sees it all the time in the school I volunteer at.) :-)

In this case, the school has a lot to do with it. Certain kinds of companies _really_ want the kind of kid that goes there.

No tenure. No classes taught by grad students. No tuition. All the kids cut metal and wire circuits the first semester. They run simulations, but then they have to make it. I am told that sleep is optional.

It worked for my kid. Worked for Dad too.

Kevin Gallimore

======= But I don't wan't to be a TV preacher.....

Unka' George [George McDuffee] ============ Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

Several times I've thought of teaching but my wife (a teacher) says I would never be able to put up with it. Especially the kids. d8-)

-- Ed Huntress

One field in engineering that is sort of undiscovered is Microwave engineering. Not to glamorous but probably one of the higher paid areas of engineering.

John

That looks like one unique and exciting college. It's amazing that something like that exists today.

-- Ed Huntress

Great money, and you get your own private hairdresser.

-- Ed Huntress

Welcome to my killfile.

I think that's a very small number of the best Wharton grads, or at the quant funds like Renaissance, exceptional math PhD's. In addition, the bottom may be about to fall out of that market. But I agree the compensation is incredible. Private equity firms charge 2% of money under management and

20% of net gain. Many of these funds are over a billion dollars and the firms may consist of relatively few employees whacking up a pretty big prize. Makes the rest of us wonder why we didn't even think of a career in finance......

The college system I worked for was a public community college system with a dozen schools / campuses.