OT: An answer to why the reduction in science and engineering majors in US universities

Here's another reason: The owner of a software company on the west coast was interviewed recently and complained loudly about the shortage of US-educated software engineers. So he went to India, where he got all he wanted for $15,000/yr. "It saved my company $30 million," he said. And he said that he plans to get as many of his engineers in India as he can from now on.

If you're a potential engineering student and you hear a US company saying it wants $15k/year engineers, and you read every day about how much engineering work is being offshored -- and you discover that an entry-level risk analyst on Wall Street makes $150,000+, what would YOU do?

-- Ed Huntress

'course, after tax that's about $100K, yer apt is about $60K/yr, yer liquor/restaurant/party/pussy bill about $30K/year, so basically, yer Wall St. anal-ist is taking subways and sleeping on a thin mattress on a bare floor--but with a good address.

That explains why the airwaves are being flooded with these student loan ads. Proof that perty much anything on the tube is a thinly-disguised PV, somewhere up to the ileocecal valve.

When interest was in the double digits (way back), school loans (forgot what they were called) were 3%. Some people were taking out boucou school loans and buying real estate, investing in the market.

Are those 15k/y engineers worth 15k per year? Have you heard from him regarding his experience using them?

Those 15k/year engineers are getting more rare. Here's some old information; someone can dig for more recent numbers if they care:

About three years ago I had a conversation with a former hiring manager for one of the big companies in the PDX area. He had left his company because they had a hiring freeze, with directives to hire all software help from India. When the whole "Indian engineer" thing had started you could get 10 Indian engineers for the price of one Oregonian. Since then, the demand exceeded supply, to the point where when we had the conversation the ratio was more like 4:1 or 3.5:1, and dropping. Not only that, the Indian engineering job shops never gave their current employees raises -- the only way to get a raise was to change jobs. This meant that not only was an Indian engineer not nearly the deal that he/she used to be, but that you could just about count on him/her not lasting long on your project.

Add to that the fact that I've worked with their code, and it's crap. The metalworking equivalent would be to mount an engine in a car by welding on the motor mounts -- it works great until you need to modify or repair things.

So now you're seeing a quiet uptick in the number of people working in-house, and you're seeing buzzwords like "insourcing" and "onshoring" in the business rags. There are a good number of folks who are going to work in the sticks (i.e. Montana, eastern Oregon, the Utah mountains, etc.), either because they're dedicated hikers or because that's where they came from before they followed the money to the coasts. The living costs less so they can charge less, but they speak American English perfectly, they understand the meaning of "good work", and they live in the same (or nearly the same) time zone.

========== In the spirit of poverty, chastity and obedience to the free market and capitalism I would go to university and then go to work for 10,000$ per year, just to show those Indians....

YAAAAAH ---- riggggggght

And after the software company owner finds out that his product is being pirated, he expects the US government to investigate, the State Department to apply pressure on foreign governments, and prosecute, and the US citizens on the jury to convict. What goes around comes around.

Unka' George [George McDuffee] ============ Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message news:Q7aMi.20$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe12.lga...

Yeah, don't believe it. We haven't even gotten into their bonuses.

The NYT says starting salaries for freshly minted analysts in areas that deal with risk, such as hedge funds, are running up to $200,000/yr. That's

-- Ed Huntress

He said they were terrific. I can't judge them third-hand.

-- Ed Huntress

This all sounds great, but they'd better stop being so quiet about it or they'll look around one day and find there aren't any engineers to "onshore" to.

-- Ed Huntress

May be, but what do you do for engineers in the meantime? I don't know about you, but if I were a entering college now I don't think I'd look at anything that's up in the air between onshoring and offshoring.

-- Ed Huntress

Couldn't they offshore these fukn risk anal-ists? DAT would be a hoot!

True. To some extent, however, the powers that be have always been shortsighted WRT engineering schooling -- our leaders forget that it exists until there aren't any engineers available, then they all run around waving their arms and bumping into walls in panic. During these times all the highschool guidance councilors are pointing kids toward engineering schools, at least until they forget again.

They're cranking up the attention, so just about the time that the economy really hits the skids there'll be tons of graduates making their contribution to the boom/bust engineering economy.

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message news:rHbMi.45$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe12.lga...

So far, not. Currency traders can be anywhere in the world, but there is so freaking much money being made in hedge-fund fees that I think it's worth it to keep them downstairs, where the bosses can keep an eye on them.

Also, you really have to go to lunch with the right people. I was freelancing at an agency on Wall Street back in May and the power-lunch traffic was something to behold.

I sat on a park bench and ate my Chinese takeout.

-- Ed Huntress

You mean like adds for a great career in IT not so long ago? Being a Novell / *nix guy I know how microshaft idiots PV'd me.

Wes

I'd like to see some engineering types teaching engineering as an elective in the public school system. Damn closed shop, teaching certificate, crap keeps them out.

I know damn well some retired engineer would like to fan the flames of knowledge if he could get a chance to teach.

Wes

So, Ed. How many Chinese did you 'Take out'? ;-)

My wife's uncle, who's a retired engineer, teaches middle school in North Carolina. I'm sure that he puts an interesting spin on his science classes.

I should ask him about the textbooks -- the ones my kid brings home have some pretty inaccurate information in them. Science textbooks, after all, are written by educators & apparently aren't vetted very closely (or at all) by actual experts in the field.

Urrrpp...too much monosodium glutamate...

-- Ed Huntress

Well, they could in some states, before Bush's No Child Left Behind act. Now the schools have to meet a provision for "highly qualified teachers" which means they need full state teaching credentials, including a degree in education, and, with a few exceptions, specific credentials in the specialty they teach. In a suburban or urban school, a credentialed general science teacher can't teach physics.

According to the current administration, your retired engineers are not "highly qualified." It has nothing to do with closed shops.

-- Ed Huntress