OT: computer repair

My CNC computer died yesterday, mid program. This 'puter tossed a HD last week. This box is all new one year ago and has an ISA slot - kinda special so I don't want to just buy another.

Anyway, on the first hard re-boot yesterday; it got to "windows did not start normally - choose safe mode, etc.etc." It had no working keyboard and froze. On all subsequent hard boots it wouldn't do a thing - totally dead. (BIOS is set up to boot on power restore) I thought I smelled the faint odor of magic smoke being let out. But "The Kid" couldn't smell it so I may be full of beans.

This A.M. , it starts right up. WTF? I turned it right back off until I can guess what to do.

I'm just totally guessing here. Should I replace the power supply? For what its worth, it started generating electric noise on the AM radio a short while back.

Are there any hardware diagnostics to run? But, I think they will test OK until it quits.

Karl

Reply to
Karl Townsend
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Power supplies for most are cheap enough to be an easter egg item.

Reply to
bamboo

This sounds like yesterday your hard drive got warm and stuck, then you turned it off, it cooled down, then it started again. This is consistent with the phenomenon called "stiction". (GTA)

YOU ARE IN GRIEVOUS DANGER OF LOSING THE DATA ON YOUR DISK IF I'M RIGHT.

I suggest getting another PC and removing your drive to it as a second drive, or if your PC is on an Ethernet network to another PC you can just do it that way. Anyway, the first thing you want to do is to get your data copied. This happened to me awhile ago and I had to remove my disk drive, wrap it in plastic, put it in my freezer, then reinstall it and quickly get another few gigs of data off it before it froze.

Maybe it's just your power supply. It's easy to tell the difference. When your disk spins you can hear it. You may have to remove the case and unplug some of the fans, but you will hear your disk spinning if you try. When you start the PC, you will hear it spin up.

Another thing I just thought of is maybe your cooling fan on your CPU has failed, and after awhile your CPU gets too hot and autoquits?

GWE

Reply to
Grant Erwin

Back when I was young and the world ran on PC/XT's, I had a machine in the unheated garage. I had to reformat and reload the HD every spring and fall. The temperature changes would cause the disk to fail. Re- formatting and reloading would fix the problem and the drive would run solid until the next seasonal change.

I understand that modern HD's compensate for temperature changes, but I don't know how old your machine is.

Reply to
Jim Stewart

Karl,

Sounds dumb but I do hope you keep the machine inside some kind of enclosure, most of these machines are 'negative pressure' meaning that the fans in the power supplies blow OUT, that creates a negative presure in the box so it'll suck the fine metal dust in from every crack and crevice... dosen't take much to create a short inside, that can be intermitent based on humidity...

Also as said these modern HD's do 'stick' or fail to spin up ocassionaly,

As another thread here pointed out, getting a copy of Norton Ghost or some other program that will allow you to make a backup of the complete instalation is really worth it... Instead of spending the better part of a day rebuilding a system you just restore from a Ghost image and volia!.

Dave

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message news:lU%Ud.1044$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

Reply to
Dave August

...

This is a brand new hard drive because the computer broke last Wednesday. Replaced HD on Saturday, didn't get all the stuff installed till Sunday. Machine broke again on Monday. Rest of computer is only one year old - P4,

512 Ram, really fast. The 'puter is inside a cabinet - no dirt chips etc. This shop stays between 60 and 75 degrees year round.

Any other guesses than Power supply? Anyway to not just guess?

Karl

Reply to
Karl Townsend

Disclaimer: I make no pretense of knowing anything about 'puters.

The new noise on the radio does suggest power supply to me. Power supplies are quite inexpensive. I would try a new or different

*compatible* power supply. I say *compatible* because they aren't all the same: newer 'puters use different voltages than older ones.

One (somewhat) local source is Computers By Design in Blaine. Dale Vietz, 763-780-0301. Dale works out of his house, has been building good machines for many years now.

Reply to
Don Foreman

Well, since you can get a decent power supply for 30 or 40 bucks, it's probably the logical next step. If the old one is really fine, then, save it as a spare. Worst case, find your local PC parts store and ask if they have any spare geeks who could come out & take a look at it. But - something doesn't add up here, that several things are going wrong all at once. I suppose a dodgy power supply is at least logical for last week's problems, so it's still the next thing to try, but something doesn't make sense yet.

Dave Hinz

Reply to
Dave Hinz

For whatever it's worth, I had similar problems that ended up being caused by the little fan that's supposed to cool the processor chip itself going bad. I had to drag a blow gun & air hose into the office to cool the chip while I backed everything up... then I shut the computer down and went to town for a new fan. The new fan was about $20 and had a cfm rating that was about 3 times what the original had. After replacing the fan, everything was back to normal. David

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message news:UC1Vd.8369$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

Reply to
David Courtney

heat, bad memories, bad ground/bad power (bitch to find). stichtion only happens when the disk is let spin down and the bearings/oil gell.

from what you have said so far: heat then power/ground then memories

you do have it on a UPS don't you? and it has lived its whole life on a UPS?

if the computer is just the control for a cnc then why not move it entirely to solid state? get a low voltage mb and solid state the disk and you don't need cooling

laz

Reply to
laz

On problems like you describe, the answer is anybody's guess because it could be due to a flakey memory, power supply, processor, or name it.

What did catch my eye is your statement that the computer is "really fast". That's often a problem in a machine shop environment, because often the faster the computer the more it tends to react to spike noise from power switches and controllers. For this reason, the design of many production floor type computers are intentionaly slugged down in performance speed to reduce EMI susceptibility.

Mechanical shock and vibration is often another big issue -- very tough on hard drives. Years back at Raytheon's factory in Waltham, MA, I had to replace 3 hard drives in a single month before discovering that the computer was mounted on a table that was subject to vibration. After moving the computer/controller to a more stable platform, the problem vanished.

The bottom line is that if you are using a computer that is designed to function in an office environment, it's likely not going to survive very well in a machine shop. That is what ruggedized computers and disk drives are designed specifically to do, and if you're using a conventional 'puter in this application you should expect problems.

Getting back to the failure(s) that you described, the information that you supplied is not adequate to precisely diagnose your problem. Could be a power supply (in my mind unlikely), a memory problem (equally unlikely), or something else. Given that you have experienced two very rare failures in less than a couple of days, I'd strongly suggest that you take a close look at the environment in which the computer is operating (shock, vibration, EMI, thermal, etc.) and determine if the computer specifications are compatible with that environment.

Good luck.

Harry C.

Reply to
hhc314

A number of my customers have decided over the years to install a conventional platter style hard drive in OmniTurn cnc lathes. Average life span is a bit under a year. If they are running bar feeders..its considerably less.

This is the reason the factory sells solid state harddrives, which last forever.

Gunner

Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error"

Reply to
Gunner

It could be a faulty hard-drive (QC sometimes misses them), but it does sound like a power supply problem to me. Buy a new power supply (or case) and try it again or you could take it to the computer store and let them f*ck around with it. Also inspect the guts of the machine for dust build up (clean with canned air or air line if dirty, also if dirty add cleaning t to your list of chores around the shop once every 3-4 months). First I would change the power supply and clean at the same time (even if the power supply is not the problem it never hurts to have a back-up), then assume the drive is faulty and exchange it for a new one, then work your way through various other bits of the hardware. Whatever you do don't turn the machine on again until you replace the power supply as I lost significant parts of my computer when the old power supply melted (the magic smoke escaped really good that day). Ken

Reply to
Ken Vale

Evidently, you have no idea concerning the software and administrative effort involved in changing a hard drive!

Dust?!!! Most of the component in my computer are sealed, and the active components (disk drives, etc.) are also filtered and/or sealed. What makes you believe that dust would even enter the picture?

With repect to the power supply, I agree with you that it is wise to have a backup, but over the past 15 years and 150 computers, I have yet to see a power suppy failure except for the fan.

With respect to the poster's guidance not to turn on the computer again...this is obvious nonsense unless you are already determined to put the computer out into next week's trash. You need to turn on the computer to find out what the diagnostic codes tell you when it tries to start...at a fundamental level this is simply a series of beeps. Important for you to remember what exactly these beeps and their count is. At a later phase, you should see messages appearing on your CRT screen, which should focus your attention to the actual problem.

If you post the symptoms that your 'puter reports, I'm sure that someone here will help you interpret them and try to help you out.

Harry C.

Reply to
hhc314

Last time Junior upgraded this machine he needed additional airflow so he installed an additional fan which didn't seem to help a lot until he moved the case forward such that the opening at bottom of the front cover was clear of the shelf. The machine now sits on a 3/4" particle board booster. I'm still looking for a Rolls Royce model grille shell to cut into the PVC front cover. Gerry :-)} London, Canada

Reply to
Gerald Miller

The same to me -- or a poor contact in the power plug from the power supply to the disk drive.

Older power supplies were often designed to handle much more power hungry disk drives. (The old 5-1/4" full height MFM drives in particular), and should have little problem running your newer drive. (However, I don't know how old your computer is.)

Another possibility is that the power connector on the motherboard is oxidized. If possible, I would get some DeOxit (or Cramolin, if you can still find any), and use it to clean the motherboard connector and the matching power supply connector -- and also any power connectors to the disk drives. (Oxidizing connectors somewhere in the system could be why the earlier drive gave up the ghost.)

Agreed. Check the format of the connector to the motherboard. Older ones have two single row of pins connectors in a line. Newer ones have an array of pins (something like eight or ten by two, IIRC). I've seen some power supplies with both styles.

In any case -- it won't hurt to have a power supply rated for more watts than your old one -- as long as it has the right connectors and mounting format.

I presume that this is someone close to the Original Poster's living area.

Good luck, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

Reply to
JR North

Missed the original thread, but regarding the power supply for the guys system. If he has th P4 cpu then he needs a decent supply. Dont know if he has a Dell, Compaq, etc or if it is a custom built clone. But, if it is an off the shelf, the physical size of a clone power supply may be an issue. That is why I got away from the name brand stuff years ago and build my own. He just needs to make sure that he has an ATX compliant supply that is P4 compatable, as some P4 motherboards require an additional 4 pin power connector outside of the original ATX power connector.

Reply to
Grady

Do like I did, get an aquarium pump, a car heater core, and a cpu water block and water cool that sucker. Much quieter and cooler as well!

Reply to
Grady

You dont get the dust bunnies on your heatsinks? How about on the fan shrouds? You got fans internally dont you? I have yet to see a computer that did not build up dust inside over time thus reducing air movement that is essential to cooling. The only exception to this is a clean room enviornment. I have seen systems that died stricty to heat caused by dust buildup internally. It happens quite frequently to people that dont know that dust is a problem. Especially on systems sitting on the floor like tower cases.

Reply to
Grady

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