So the numbers of "crimes" reported by the actual countries that the "crimes" took place in and in which they were reported and punished as "crimes" weren't in fact "crimes" because some idiot named ed living elsewhere proclaims that they aren't?
Sure thing, idiot.
Next post?
ral
Evidently you are having some difficulty understanding the situation.
Let's consider a simple, and obvious, example:
Compare the number of cases of bigamy in the US with the number in Sa'udi Arabia.
The latter country has a far lower rate than the former. Why? because the definition is different. In the US, a guy who marries a second woman prior to the death or divorce of the first is a bigamist. In Sa'udi Arabia, he doesn't become a bigamist until he reaches the fifth woman.
Mind you, it's a serious crime there, but not exactly a frequent one.
Al Moore
Ah, Richard, you should have taken my suggestion and just taken a nap. Any reasoning that you can't do with your wooden blocks or popsicle sticks, or that takes more than two sentences, seems to throw you into a tailspin. If you don't want to nap, just stroke your pistol for a while.
They're all crimes, Richard. But you can't compare countries based on the Interpol reports because, as they say, we all count different crimes in our national crime reports. Some countries include things like total sexual offences, drug offences, fraud, and even counterfeiting, while the US does not.
Get it? If not, give yourself a break and stop trying. This is over your head.
Ed Huntress
Sorry I don't understand what you mean by the phrase 'simple assault' if it doesn't mean the same thing as 'common assault'.
Oh, you have that right. Simple assault and common assault are the same thing. But there are differences in how "threats" are interpreted in different countries. This is one law-dictionary definition:
"A crime that occurs when one person tries to physically harm another in a way that makes the person under attack feel immediately threatened. Actual physical contact is not necessary; threatening gestures that would alarm any reasonable person can constitute an assault. Compare battery." (Nolo dictionary)
Other definitions emphasize *threats* more than this one does. My understanding is that there are fairly wide variations in how this is interpreted, but that's all second-hand. I don't know whether the same circumstances would be treated as a criminal assault in the US vs. the UK, for example.
Since the numbers are such large contributors to total crime figures, it would be worth knowing. However, simple assault is not included in the US national crime figures, so it isn't relevant to the Interpol comparisons that Gunner reported.
Ed Huntress
I've been looking for my "Criminal Law" book but seem to have mislaid it. However:
"Assault includes the intentional or reckless application of unlawful force to the person of another without his consent, or the threat of such force by act or gesture, if the person threatening has caused, or causes the person threatened, to believe that he has the present ability to effect his purpose. An assault is a battery if the force is actually applied, and is a wounding if the flesh is opened."
Common assault is included in UK stats under violence. This is a breakdown of the BCS report:
Yes, they're counted in the US as well. But they're not an element of our National Crime Index, and thus they are not included in the Interpol stats. The same applies to the UK. Common assault is not included in those UK figures Gunner quoted, nor in the revised ones that I posted.
Ed huntress
Me? You missed the one key point, Alan, and you accuse me of not understanding?
That key point is that *it doesn't matter* what or how you creatively choose to interpret the numbers....if it's a "CRIME" in the country that reports it, it's a "CRIME" no matter what.*
Doesn't matter if you want to use some idiocy about bigamy and try to justify yours by saying it's legal somewhere else. If you are *here*, it's a "CRIME" and gets reported.
But we aren't talking bigamy.....we are talking "VIOLENT CRIME"....ie one assault compared to another and the same on murder et al. Your lame-o logic might hold water if some turd world country like canada legalized marijuana....you could say that the drugs crimes in canada as opposed to the US can't be compared. That would hold water. But we aren't talking marijuana....yet again, we are talking MURDER/ASSAULT/ROBBERY/RAPE and the onus is on YOU to prove that any of those aren't considered a crime in the countries in question.
Have you so far?
Has the idiot formerly known as ed?
Is there some suggestion that a murder in this country isn't considered one in Germany? That a rape here isn't one in England?
Prove that and you'll have an argument. Until then, you're wasting my time.
ral
Violent crime isn't what the Interpol numbers are comparing, Richard. Gunner never said it was, Interpol didn't say it was, and I didn't say it was.
Get it? Is it starting to sink into that thick skull of yours, d*****ad?
Ed Huntress
I regret to say that Richard is demonstrating a degree of density such that nothing is likely to sink into it. When even the anchor floats, it's time to give up and move on.
Al Moore
This has to challenge the record for the longest running thread (i.e., total number of posts) on RCM in the last 5 years I've been paying attention to it!
It's been interesting reading. Keep it up Gunner, Ed (and maybe Richard)! Very educational.
Mike Eberle> >
Yeah, he's a lot dumber than I thought.
You just don't get it, do you, idiot?
Once more....where in your wasted-brain state do you reckon Interpol got those "CRIME" numbers? Do you reckon they pulled them outta a hat like you do most all your arguments? No....they got them from the countries that reported the "CRIMES" as "CRIMES". The countries reported on reported them as crimes so they are in fact saying "we state that we, *the above signed*, declare our country's crimerate to be....".
It's not reported as CRIME if it's not a crime, now is it?
You in all your weirdness and idiocy, though, are looking at numbers declared BY THE COUNTRIES INVOLVED and saying "hey, that's not your
*real* crime rate and here's why I, the expert, know better than you do".Just f*ck off, idiot! You are actually making me feel stupid for having to fall to your level to argue with you and that is only the second time in my life I can say that.
ral
I just don't know, Alan. You and the idiot formerly known as ed....are you guys really this stupid or is this all some sort of game you're playing on me? I mean NO ONE can really be this stupid, can they?
I give up.
ral
No, d*****ad, the US never said they were all our crimes. They just gave Interpol our National Crime Index categories, which are the ones the FBI uses as an overall index to analyze crime trends in the US. Nobody, including the FBI, ever said those figures are our total crime figures. Interpol just had nothing more to go on -- thus, the warning they post on their website, not to use the overall figures to compare countries.
Where the hell did you get that idea? Read the introduction to the UCR, and you'll see what the US actually says about it. It's just an index of selected crime categories, not our total crime rate. I posted the quote from them yesterday, idiot.
Richard, are you on drugs? The United States doesn't report all crimes to Interpol; only the ones I listed yesterday. Germany reports EVERY category of crime that the US reports, plus about a dozen more. Two of them (drug offenses -- 250,969 crimes, and fraud -- 788,208 crimes) alone add over
1,200 crimes/100k to Germany's figures. (from Police Crime Statistics [Germany], page 15,Richard, are you completely out of your mind, or are you just dumber than a tree stump?
I get the feeling you were plenty stupid before we started discussing this, Richard. You're just feeling it now because you're seeing it for yourself.
I'd be curious to hear from anyone who cares to raise their hand here. Is there anyone who doesn't see the problem with what Richard is saying? If you have a comment on it one way or the other, this would be a good time to pipe up. I think Richard is on the verge of going apoplectic, and he may not be able to reach a keyboard for much longer.
"They didn't say they were a list of our crimes....they just gave them a list of our crimes so Interpol could list them in their crime numbers"?
ROFLMAO!!!!!
Pathetic!
ral
Hwæt! mikee, men ne cunnon secgan to soðe:
Much higher?
I guess that's one of your 80%
Box of rocks.
Bag full of hammers.
etc.
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
Well he makes up for it by cussing a lot.
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
Nice post and excellent cite, Gunner. Always refreshing to have facts to back up my beliefs in the advantages of gun ownership!
Mike Eberle> >
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