OT: range report

Got a last minute email from Todd last evening, might I be available for a shoot today. I was. It turned out to be a very, very interesting range date. Todd has been working with an electrical engineer at Medtronic on their campus. I have no idea what they're doing, doesn't matter. He introduced her to shooting on a previous day. She'd never shot nor even handled a handgun previous to that, shot notably well that time. Tall woman of about 40, slender, attractive if not a head-turner, soft-spoken, very pleasant personality, obvously bright since she's an EE. (ducking incoming...)

Not exactly a fragile flower, she climbed to the top of Devil's Tower at age 13. Her shooting today was spectacular. I offered my Springfield 1911A1 "loaded" to her, suggested she dryfire a couple of times so she'd know what to expect from the light crisp trigger. She did, said "oh, I see what you mean!" I then handed her a magazine loaded with 5 rounds. She inserted it. I think I racked the slide for her. Her five rounds made one ragged hole at 7 yards. First time ever with that pistol. Wow! I then asked if she might like to try Mary's "purse gun". She said sure. That was Doc, the stainless 686 in .357 with 6" barrel. I'd smuggled it to the firing point in a pistol rug. When she saw it, her jaw dropped followed by a huge grin. "Purse gun, yeah, right!" Todd said, "those are powderpuff loads, right?" "Uh, no, I don't bother with powderpuffs anymore, they're full magnum loads: 15.5 grains of W296 behind 158-grain bullets." He rolled his eyes. She drilled those suckers into a group only slightly larger than she'd shot with the 1911. The flash, smoke and chest-thumping bang didn't faze her a bit. This was her first encounter with either pistol. This woman is a natural. The other surprise: the Ruger LCR I glommed last week.

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I'd made up some ammo that I expect is probably on the light side of factory loads: 4.1 grains of W231 behind 125 grain RN plated bullet. Book sez 880 fps but a snubby wouldn't achieve that mv.

I've heard horror stories about airweight .38's, sprained wrists and so forth, and I'm not exactly hairy-armed man mountain Dean at age 68 so I was a bit leery. I fired, wearing a glove and expecting some snap from the featherweight revolver. It didn't happen! I heard a bang and saw a hole appear downrange, but recoil was absolutely unremarkable. Shot the rest of that cylinder with similar impression. Ooo-kay, so then I loaded one round of the buck-a-bang Hornady +P ammo wondering how much that was gonna hurt. One review described it as snappy but managable. When I read that, I imagined a young gorilla with hairy wrists like sinewed tree trunks. The +P pow was absolutely a non-event. It went bang, bucked a bit, and the hole appeared downrange right where I'd pointed it close enough as wouldn't matter. I'd have no problem shooting 50 rounds of that in a session if someone else bought the ammo. That is a rather amazing little revolver. The sights are essentially nonexistant and useless, which doesn't dismay me at all because I regard the LCR as suitable for point 'n shoot self defense at ranges of 25 feet or less. The LCP in .380 is easier to carry because it's flatter, a bit snappy but not objectionably so. LCR with +P ammo is about even with 9mmp in efficacy, is a bit bulkier than the LCP but weighs little more, is more powerful, and practice with it is quite enjoyable with target loads. LCP is definitely the easier pocket carry, but pocket carry of the LCR might be feasible. The trigger on the LCR is nearly as good as the trigger on my Ruger GP100 in double action which is exceptionally good. I'm not gonna strap on a gun as a routine part of getting dressed. Perhaps it would be prudent to do so if I lived in more dangerous environs. For now, I regard the risk of not doing so not commeasurate with the inconvenience of doing so. Having a pistol in me pocket helps timorous old me feel safe when out and about at times so I'm glad for the right to be able to defend myself if I might care to do so.

Reply to
Don Foreman
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The Airweight is even better with a Wolf spring kit in it.

Reply to
Buerste

Load hollow based wad cutters backwards, over a powder charge that gets the round out of the tube no faster than 700 fps and you will have one very serious self defense round that kicks like a 25.

Put a 209 Magnum shotgun primer in the hole..and you have a round that will..will be terminal on anything thin skinned with little or no concern about over penetration.

Just a suggestion..shrug.

Been there, done that for years in a Detective Special

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Dunno, I've never fired an airweight. A spring kit might improve the trigger of an airweight but it wouldn't change its sensed recoil.

Reply to
Don Foreman

Interesting! A 158 grain bullet at 700 fps has 172 lbf-ft of energy, which is less than a .380 poodle-popper. .380 Hydra-shok is 200, as is .380 Hornady FTX.

Reply to
Don Foreman

Yep. And it penetrates about 4" then turns into a quarter dollar in size and DOESNT provide a through and through wound. And it WILL open up EVERY time.

Makes a rather ghastly temporary wound channel

Its not a good round for ranges over 10-15 yrds, but for up close and personal, out of a belly gun, it works very well.

Its a very well thought of favorite old cop and trap line load. Head shoot a coyote in the trap, and it will most often, not come out the other side, but when you open the skull..its a nasty milk shake.

One of the problems as we all know..is the .380 is not a reliable expander, even up close.

Gunner

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Getting a lady into firearms. Good work!

If she is a climber still, she probably had the strength to rack it her self.

Don't mess with Mary :)

40 years old, a history of doing physical things like climbing and an engineers brain when it comes to cause and effect, I'm not surprised she did well.

I looked at one of those recently. I was looking for a LCP which the store hasn't seen for about 9 months. The LCR looks like a nice gun for use as a back up or a pocket gun.

Looking at your link, it appears that with certain ammo it makes IDPA power factor of 125 for SSR if one wanted to shoot a match with it. Five shots would be a liability.

For what ever reason, I've always liked shooting revolvers, they just seem more accurate and safer.

Do you have any idea of the power factor of the ammo you were using. That is weight in grains x velocity / 1000 at 10 feet.

I wonder if the bore line being low relative to you hand has an effect on felt recoil?

Any gun beats no gun when you really need a gun. Being well practiced with minor power guns if you have to use them is a real plus.

Thanks for the range report. I love reading them.

Wes

-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Reply to
Wes

I've listened to Massad Ayoob many times. He has a theory that you really want to shoot someone with factory ammo. Why? Because if you get a prosecutor or tort lawyer with an agenda, he will paint the picture that you designed ammo to kill and not to stop. The stuff the cops carry wasn't good enough for you. You wanted to kill my client or this dirt bag that has been in prison 5 times that the jury doesn't know about due to rules of evidence.

I wish I could remember his quotation on Geoffrey Fieger (ran once for governor tort lawyer). It basically was he is someone that paints illusions and the legal system is his canvas. Not a tryer of facts if you get my drift.

Wes

-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Reply to
Wes

The ammo I was using wouldn't make the IDPA minimums. Note that IDPA ammo tests are done with a full-size pistol regardless of what will be used to shoot it. Note further that it's a measure of momentum rather than energy, so heavy bullets score best. IDPA min for SSP, ESP and SSR divisions is 792 fps for 158 grain bullets. Federal factory 158 grain ammo is spec'd at 770 fps, pretty close. I think +P loads behind 158 gn bullets would meet IDPA minimums.

Could be. Reviewers I've read credit the Hogue grips.

Reply to
Don Foreman

Might be great for coyotes up close, and I don't doubt that the effect on coyote heads has been observed.

From

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"Some even suggest it for personal defense and I'm sure that, properly placed, it would be adequate in that role, but it would be my choice only as a last resort. Years ago, handloaders seated hollow base wadcutters backwards in the belief--which was completely wrong by the way--that the huge hole ensured expansion. Others have tried to hotrod it and discovered more grief than they ever imagined."

I dunno. I'll stick with factory loads for SD and HD.

Reply to
Don Foreman

And I keep mine loaded with factory hollow point personal defense ammo for that very reason . Doesn't matter that my handloads use the same slug and have a lower velocity - "You used a magnum primer to be SURE that load would KILL anything you hit." -- Snag Don't need that hassle ...

Reply to
Snag

When on the road touring , I carry a .45 ACP . But for general every day carry it's a Davis Industries two-shot derringer in .38 spl loaded with 125 JHP's . It's purely a belly gun , but then most confrontations are within arm's reach . And it fits in the pocket most men carry their wallet in ...surprise ! -- Snag "90 FLHTCU "Strider" '39 WLDD "PopCycle" BS 132/SENS/DOF

Reply to
Snag

I've heard that for years, but I have yet to see anyone cite a case where a prosecutor nailed someone for using evil handloads rather than factory ammo.

Reply to
RBnDFW

So is your experience in court equal to Massad Ayoobs? Just curious.

Wes

-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Reply to
Wes

Just remember inside 21 feet a man with a knife that knows how to use it will kill you.

Wes

Reply to
Wes

Indeed. Ive shot several of the Davis derringers..and had a hell of a time holding on to them. But up close and personal..that should work well enough.

This is what I carry 24/7

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?Item=170811893 Early ones had a poor reliabliity rep, but a simple cleanup on the action and ramp makes them very reliable. I havent had a failure in the past 1500 rds or so. And it works rather well, even when filled with pocket lint, etc etc.

It drops well enough into cargo pants, bib overall pockets and so forth. Ankle holster carry is fine.

I think Ive carried mine for..hummm...18 yrs now.

Recoil is "stout" and its not something you will wish to hammer out a few hundred rounds each weekend with, but for the typical 7yd self defense shoot, it works rather well.

Im usually within arms reach of a Colt Series 70, that Ive carried for over 30 yrs as well, and its on my person a fair amount of the time as well. I carried it as a deputy, and have carried it so much, that the bluing finally wore off, so had it Armalloyed about 18 yrs ago. No problems since then.

My second most commonly carried arm is either of these two

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And
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Shrug

And of course..appropriate speed loaders

Both are superb self defense weapons, though to be fair..the Mod 57 may be a bit much for those that think the .380 is good enough to stop a bad guy on meth. Gold Dots are my choice for factory loads, along with Nyclads when I can find them, though most of the time...my arms are filled with normal handloads with decent JHPs.

Self defense is usually a self loader, utility is usually a wheel gun, for me. Though I do tend to configure differently depending on where Im going, and what Ill be doing. Working in the Inner city...its always the .45s...out in the high desert..usually a wheel gun in a caliber, with extended range.

And of course, when out on the road...I carry a rough and ready centerfire rifle. Its easy to tuck away a #4 SMLE thats been "sporterized" properly..chopped and channeled...and one can always use it for a prybar or jack handle if need be , without harming it.

Similar to this one, but no scope, factory peep sights only...which works fine for its intended purpose

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10 rds in the magazine and a hundred more in the Go Bag in stripper clips, is a comfort when traveling out amongst the English . Particularly in a caliber that does well on vehicles and lightly armored or thin skinned "game"

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Indeed he can..so while drawing your weapon..you had best be backpeddling just as fast as you can, be your weapon be firearm, blade or blunt object.

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Read what I wrote. Did Ayoob cite specific court cases?

without cites, it's just opinion

Reply to
RBnDFW

I can't remember if he did to be honest. I don't think he made it up though. He has been an expert witness so credibilty is his stock in trade.

Wes

-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Reply to
Wes

And this is a case where your PDW better be a major caliber.

I'm thinking a .40 SW that can handle +P might be my next social gun.

A real nutcase is very different from the normal cretin.

Wes

-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Reply to
Wes

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