OT Ship collision

Why,apparently, did both navy ship get damaged so close to the water line? Didn't the freighter and the oil tanker have a high foreward brow?
2nd question. How do you lose 10 sailors in possibly a 20-25 mph collision? Is it blut force trauma, or do they drown inside the ship because that section gets sealed off (no escape) to save the rest of the ship. One of you probably has some educated opinions. Thanks, Ivan Vegvary
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Ivan Vegvary wrote:

No, most (big) freighters built less than 30(?) years ago have the "bulbous" bow below the water line. It sticks out way in front of the pointed bow. These things apparently save a lot of energy.
Last one, the dead were found inside the ship when divers went down into the flooded compartments.
Jon
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Thanks Jon!
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On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 2:09:49 PM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:

? Didn't the freighter and the oil tanker have a high foreward brow?

on? Is it blut force trauma, or do they drown inside the ship because that section gets sealed off (no escape) to save the rest of the ship.

Don't know about the first question - I assume Jon has it correct. As for t he second question, the dead were (mostly?) found in their flooded sleeping compartments.
The big question, in my mind, is WTF? don't these ships (both of them) have radar? And don't they have someone watching where they are going? Also, th is is supposedly a very busy harbor. Isn't there a harbor master (or whatev er such a person is called) keeping an eye on things?
What century is this, anyway?
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:32:09 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck

Singapore is one of the busiest ports in the world and because it is so congested has a traffic control scheme that manages all ship traffic within the harbor.
From what I have read if you enter the harbor you are monitored by shore radar and if you deviate from the traffic scheme you will be immediately notified by radio and directed to a proper course.
The news reports I've read have been rather vague about the actual position of the ships, headings, speed, etc., but I did read reference to "south of Singapore" which may mean that the ships were outside the traffic control area.
And yes, ships are required by international law to maintain a watch and to proceed at a reasonable speed and to avoid collisions.
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John B.
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I think that they got hit by bulbous bows... And people live inside those compartments... The series of accidents looks quite suspicious...
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wrote:

Maybe they bought the hydraulic seals for the steering gear from a new lowest bidder?
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:53:12 -0500, Ignoramus3346

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uuCNAwXGaQ

Oh, bulbous *bows* not bouffants... My bad, but enjoy anyway:)
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William

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On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:53:12 -0500, Ignoramus3346

Yeah, something hinky this way comes. We may find traitors on both (or all 4?) ships, too.
- I am a Transfinancial--A rich person born in a poor person's body. Please stop the hate by sending me money to resolve my money identity disorder. --anon
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 11:09:45 -0700 (PDT), Ivan Vegvary
Look at the bow of the ACX Crystal. See the pointy nose which scraped the decks? See the bulbous nose beneath that which hit belowdecks? http://tinyurl.com/yb4ltdv2 and http://tinyurl.com/y8xmr4pp , class NK bow.

I haven't seen the second ship yet, but judging by the damage to the USS John McCain, it looks like the same type of bow. They're seem to be common. Watch some ship collision vids on Djutube and you'll see that.

When you ram something through the outer hull, water can flush people out in an instant, or simply drown them (Fitz). But if anyone was on the deck, why didn't they warn of the collision before getting knocked/swept off? (Thereby making themselves unavailable to be knocked or swept off.) - What I want to know is why, with several redundant systems and procedures, did they hit either time?
1) Both ships have crewmen manning the bridge at all times, but no bridge crewman from either ship spotted the other before collision.
2) Both ships should have their radar turned on 24/7 while underweigh, yet no radar showed the other ship.
3) The military is at a state of alert now and should have had watches on every ship, yet no sentries on the military ships spotted anything. 4) Military ships should also have working sonar, yet nothing was caught.
Altogether, that is so highly improbable that it defies logic unless both ships were dark (no lights/radar/sonar).
GPS spoofing moves ships into each other, but all those other methods of watch should have caught the other ship before either collision. Of course, the report by the captain of the ACX Crystal was pure make-believe. He flashed them with lights 10 minutes before hitting? Where was the 12 minutes of fog horn collision warnings, hmmm? You can't miss those, even through the hull.
I wonder if any of the ships' crew members disappear...
- I am a Transfinancial--A rich person born in a poor person's body. Please stop the hate by sending me money to resolve my money identity disorder. --anon
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:44:55 -0700, Larry Jaques

It was reported that the collision took place in Singapore waters and the position appears to be at the eastern end of the Singapore port traffic pattern where the Port Authority of Singapore controls all traffic and monitors all moving shipping by radar. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40995829 shows the position of the Alnic at the time of the collision.
I have also seen what appears to be a radar chart showing all shipping in and approaching Singapore harbor at the time of the collision, which shows only the tanker and the Singapore Straits Times reports that the Harbor Authority states that the Navel Vessel was not detected by their traffic control radar. http://tinyurl.com/ya2l4ep3 It has been the law for a number of yours now, that all shipping, right down to small yachts, are required to have, and operate, a Automatic Identification System (AIS) in order to enter Singapore harbor.
About 350 ships arrive in Singapore Port daily.
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Schweik
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wrote:

http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/uss-john-s-mccain-may-have-suffered-steering-failure
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On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 06:35:37 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

Don't military ships have bow thrusters? Might be a nice safety feature for the future if not.
Do you buy into the maintenance thing? Where I think it might have played into things, it didn't in all 4 cases. One of the posters mentioned that they were "AIS dark". I thought that might be reserved for times at high alert and games maneuvers, not while traveling shipping lanes with numerous other ships. But even with their radar off (passive only), why didn't they see the other ships in time? When you're dark, you have every means of identifying threats going strong at all times, and that includes eyes on the deck.
Somethin's hinky here, including GIS spoofing.
- I am a Transfinancial--A rich person born in a poor person's body. Please stop the hate by sending me money to resolve my money identity disorder. --anon
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