Ship Modelers

Is there a URL? I have got to see what a $13,000 model looks like.

Jim Klein

It sounds (and probably looks) like a properly finished wood ship model done by a dedicated modeler who is willing to work for about $6.00/hour. Properly finishing that kit in 2,000 hours is really cooking.

Boris

I take it back. I've been to the web site. It is a commercial outfit offering nicely finished kits for a fair price -- however, after looking at several of these models, they have taken many, many, shortcuts in order to get the prices as low as they have. Can't blame them. As near as I can see, the Sovereign and other full-rigged warships have less than 1/3 of the correct rigging. Most other models have less than 1/2 the rigging. From what I can see, the standing rigging is complete, the halyards are at 1/2 (i.e., just the jig or the fall, but not both), and the braces, sheets, are less than they should and buntlines, clewlines, reef lines, leechlines, etc. are all missing. All things considered, these seem to be competently executed and being sold at a fair price.

Boris

I looked and I agree. $2000.00+ sounds like a lot of money for a 1/4 scale fishing schooner till I looked in the kit and read the instructions.

Jim Klein

My Benjamin W. Latham took me two years. I figure that I put in about 3000 hours on it. The rigging is absolutely complete -- both rigging and all details were based on Chappelle's excellent book, "The American Fishing Schooner." I replaced all the supplied wood blocks with pewter blocks obtained from BlueJacket. I probably added $250 to the kit's cost for fittings, wood, paint, rigging line, model sized wire rope, and stuff like that .. not to mention $400 for the case.

I'll be happy to let it gofor only $30,000. Shipping and handling not included.

There are many great kits out there -- Model Expo sells some very nice ones and Bluejacket probably sells the best available. Good kits, even if you replace half of the material provided save you the very tedious and protracted job of getting good plans, doing the research, and making up the molds and/or frames and/or bulkheads from them. Probably saves no more than about 20% of the effort required to build a top-notch model.

I used to build plastic ship models, but swore off them for ever after my HMS Victory was damaged beyond repair by an over-enthusiastic cleaner type. A well built wooden ship model is very strong and not likely to be so easily destroyed. It is almost impossible to repair plastic spars once they are broken. Also, the plastic gets brittle with age. If you're going to build period ship models -- go for wood. For modern ships, go for high-quality resin. The kit cost is the least of it.

Boris

Will you throw in a glass case and a case of beer? :-)

I built two Midwest Skiffs. Nothing elaborate, my first wood boats. They are in cases too and one is actually for sale. Amazing how long perfectly executed "Museum Quality" takes. Not like those "museum quality" models they knock out in China in the labor camps.

Midwest kit knock offs, built up, sell for the price of the Midwest kit. I mentioned that to the Midwest rep once. Thought she was going to become ill.

Jim

So, a $13,000 model with out complete rigging is, in your opinion 'competently executed and being sold at a fair price'? Am I missing something? John

My Santa Maria took me around 600 hours and it is by no means museum quality, though it is priceless to me and I would never sell it at any price.

The Bluejacket name, to me, brings to mind small, minimal quality models. Is there something else I'm thinking about? The Italian model companies produce the best quality wooden ship models.

I've done a couple of Midwest kits. They are great quality and the instructions are second to none. After that the kits Model Expo produces have the best instructions/plans. Of course the prize for 'not so great' plans/instructions go to the Italian companies.

That's a fair price for 1/3 of the rigging -- because with missing rigging, there is usually also a lot of additional detail missing. Might possibly push it up to the $30-$50 k range if it were done in all detail. No one would ever get that price. I base this on the idea that a high level of craftsmanship deserves at least $15/hour. If we want to be really fair, we should be talking $35-$50 an hour. If a person can knock out a complete, museum quality man-of war in 1,000 hours (really smoking) we've got a $30 to $50 model, if priced fairly.

Boris

We must be talking about differen Bluejacket companies. They have all sizes of models and if the models are half as good as their fittings, they are excellent. I've investigated their kits and talked to them -- very nice folk, knowledgeable, helpful. Get their catalog. You might change your mind.

I humbly beg to differ. I've been given two Italian kits over the years -- Mamoli -- the plans are cryptic, the wood splits, the fittings suck ... there are no instructions that can be understood by mere mortals .. other than that, they are fine. I nver finished them. Midwest makes good kits, as does Model Expo.

Boris

I agree totally on all three vendors. I've done Midwest, Model Expo, and attempted Mamoli. I like Mamoli's ropes, however.

Boris

Of course. Shipping in the glass case is the safest way. As for the beer, okay as long is it just a premium beer and none of the exotic stuff. -- but you know, for quality sailing ship models, wine or champagne is more appropriate -- for officer's quarters -- if you identify with the sailors, then rum it is.

Boris

I agree plans are cryptic at best... certainly not for beginners... though I was able to complete my Santa Maria with some help from Frank Mastini's book 'Ship Modeling Simplified'

I have always found the wood to be very much superior. For example the wood in my current Model Expo "Niagara" cannot compare to the wood in my current Corel "Wasa". The Corel is by and far away a much better kit, material wise, including the fittings, ropes, etc. My Santa Maria was an Amati: Bounty was a Mantua: Niagara is, as discussed, by Model Expo: Wasa is from Corel: The Corel is the best overall kit. The Model Expo has the best plans and instructions. The Mantua's packaging and plans were so-so, but the materials generally were excellent.

John

Has there ever been a ship modeler's use group? If not, should we start one? Might be a really cool way to concentrate the exchange of information and modeling techniques?

Jim Klein

My Bounty was a Mantua:

The Niagara is, as discussed, by Model Expo:

The Wasa is from Corel: