OT Starter overhaul

There are probably many formulations of the materials used in making carbon brushes as well as differences in sintering temperatures, pressures, furnace atmosphere, etc. In addition there are cost and quality issues involved in the manufacturing of these products. I don't think that there is an simple answer to your question.

The brushes that were installed weren't hard enough or the wrong material.

What would a "starter overhaul kit" consist of? Both bushings, pinion gear, brushes and the pull in relay? Probably pretty expensive for the guy that only needs a couple of brushes :-)

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb (jdslocombatgmail)

The brushes that were installed weren't hard enough or the wrong material.

What would a "starter overhaul kit" consist of? Both bushings, pinion gear, brushes and the pull in relay? Probably pretty expensive for the guy that only needs a couple of brushes :-)

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb (jdslocombatgmail)

I'll second that faulty brush probability. When a vehicle is out of tune, longer cranking times could account for that as well, halving the useful lifetime.

How were the bushings? Premature wear there creates extreme drag and increases the amperage going through those brushes.

-- Some people hear voices. Some see invisible people. Others have no imagination whatsoever.

it used to be a starter kit had a bendix brushes and bushings. What I got was the brush holder preloaded with new brushes. After I ordered, I found a place that had all of the bushings with their kit.

Roger Shoaf

I've never seen an overhaul KIT, just piece parts. Want brushes, get brushes, need a Bendix, buy a Bendix, need bearings, buy bearings, ditto solenoid. By the time you get all of that, you could have a rebuilt starter for $25-30. That may not last as long as factory new, but probably a few more years.

Did you haul the armature out and clock it for runout between centers? Had a VW generator that ate brushes but otherwise looked fine. When I did that, I found the armature was .030" out of round. A few quick passes on the lathe cured that, didn't eat brushes anymore. Commutator wasn't pitted or burned, just not concentric. Looked fine just looking at it.

I've found that discount rebuilts usually just are a repaint and new brushes, they don't rewind, they don't do much more than shine up the commutator with sandpaper and add bearings if needed. I usually look them over very carefully and lube with MY choice of greases.

Stan

What's that Lassie? You say that RS at work fell down the old rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue by Mon, 20 Sep 2010 22:18:35 -0700 (PDT):

But how many starts?? And how many amps when cranking??

If it's not the same motor, one could require more torque to spin over. Or if the driver starts/stops the engine frequently you could use up the starters life in fewer miles driven.

No one seems to have considered the amount of time that the starter had to run over that number of miles. My 1992 Nissan Sentra still has the original starter and it has 330K miles on it. But I drove it 40 miles to work and 40 miles back for most of its life. And, if there ever was a evan a hint of hard starting, I dealt with it immediately, so the starter never had to turn the engine much more than one cycle to get it running. It was always maintained so it started immediately in the harsh winters, too. Contrast that with a car the was used in town, where the average trip might have been a few miles. Add to that: an operator who didn't do tune ups, etc.. We have all seen cars where the operator sits there and grinds away for minutes at a time to get a troubled engine to come to life.

Pete Stanaitis

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I always used to go that route untill the absoute cheapest rebuilt I could find was about $75, most places wanted around $150. This was for an old Mercury Topaz with a 4 cyl engine. All the Ford starters I had delt with up till then were usually $15 to 20.

I was just going to buy one of the cheap ones and swap the nose, and then I found out that the starter itself was smaller in diameter so the nose swaping thing was not going to work. When I finally yanked the old starter it was much cleaner than the underside of the car suggesting to me that it had few miles on it. It had a nice shiny Exide sticker just like the one I looked at when I got my kit. when I took it apart it looked like someone scraped the commutator on the sidewalk and while the bushing in the front of the starter was brand new the one in the back was paper thin.

I turned the commutator, undercut the mica installed the brushes and bushings and that motor cranked like nobodies business. That kit cost $10, and to me it was worth the effort for the bench work vs. the risk of having to crall back under the car and re-do the job a second time.

I agree with you about the rebuilts I suspect they do as little as they can and then give it a simple bench test and away it goes.

If this starter balks anytime soon I will through it on the lathe and check if it runs true.

Roger Shoaf

Interesting. I was taught to always undercut the generator armature and never undercut the starter.

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb (jdslocombatgmail)

Rewind a rebuilt? Dreamer.

Before you install it? Good idea.

THAT is the problem I hated with rebuilt starters. Even with a lifetime guarantee, the cheapies would go out annually. It wasn't worth it.

What's the procedure to "through it on", Rog?

-- Some people hear voices. Some see invisible people. Others have no imagination whatsoever.

OOPS! Should have been "true it on the lathe". "True" being a term for making the surface of the commutator concentric with the armiture shaft.

Roger Shoaf

Seems to me that any motor or generator should have the mica undercut. As I understand, the reasons are that the undercuts catch bits of stuff and keep it from piling up behind the brushes, and if the mica is not undercut, as the copper wears the mica woulld then stand proud and cause the brushes to jump.

I have heard some folks say they never do more than a quick polish with sand paper, but if you look at a new armature the mica is always undercut, also on the repair manuals that publish specs on the commutator they have minimum diameter and undercut depths (Toyota as an example I recall.) Also see:

You undercut mica on a generator, but NOT on a starter motor. The hard carbon/copper brushes look after the mica - indercutting a starter commutator GUARANTEES you will have a failure due to a shorted armature when the copper dust fills the groove.

Don't ask me how I know.

I though you ment "throw it on the lathe" to check if it runs true.