Ford F250 Starter problem

They don't even have a "bendix" any more :-)

Gunner, this is your first half on topic post to the group in ages & for a change you didn't spam it across half a dozen unrelated groups involving politics, guns or survivalist crap!

When its guns, politics or your survivalist BS it ends up here? What gives?

You are doing my head in!

Dunno about yours, but my 91 Ford has needed a new fender-mounted solenoid and a new brush assembly in the starter motor. When the motor brushes wore to their stops, vibration from messing around down there apparently caused them to make contact again, briefly.

The factory manual for Aerostar/Explorer/Ranger shows starters both with and without an external solenoid. jsw

Those starters are dirt cheap rebuilt. I have three reman ford starters in my ebay store myself and I am asking 25 each.

D2AF-11131-CA 8A, E4TF-11131-AA, 3221

i

Actually its not. But evidently you filter out much of it.

Now...do you actually know anything about the topic or are you simply posting off topic?

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Gunner fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I caught the tail of someone saying that the Bendix mechanism is no longer used.

Except for "starterators", what starters don't have an engagement mechanism that is or is like a Bendix?

Lloyd

I was kinda wondering about that myself.....

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Some assistance is required in defining terms.

The black round thingy on the fenderwell with a battery lead coming in, a cable going out to the starter and a wire to operate it , is called a what? Starter Relay? Solenoid? Big honking relay?

The "electricly engaged" gizmo on the starter itself is called a what?

Starter Solenoid? Electric Bendix? Thingabobbie? Hodendragon? Gizmatso?

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

Check your email...........

Gunner wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

That's the starter *relay*, not the solenoid. The solenoid is on (or in) the starter.

*relay

What position was the ignition key in when you did this? I'm betting it wasn't Start.

*that's* the solenoid. Sounds like the starter relay is bad -- shorting across the solenoid terminals bypasses the relay.

Do so. You probably will find 0V. [...]

It's called the solenoid. There is no such part as a "starter bendix" -- Bendix is a *brand name* for various automotive parts.

Fender-mounted relay. It's quite common.

Gunner wrote in news:rd7ih8libpcj7l0f5pm5pljr7bdiimkudl@

4ax.com:

Starter relay. And I think that's what went bad on your friend's truck.

Starter solenoid.

7.5L V-8 gas?

Huh? Ford starters normally have one wire only to the starter. Are you sure this wasn't a Chebby?

The Ford solenoid (starter relay) is fender-mounted and supplies hot only when engaged. Crossing the battery cable should have turned it over if it wasn't a starter problem.

Yeah, the small wire energizes the coil for the bendix. Shorting between the two large nuts should have -spun- the starter, not started the truck. Very strange setup.

I was a Ford man but got out of the bidness in '86 with the back injury.

That would normally be the starter solenoid. Energizing the coil will kick the bendix out to engage the ring gear and the contacts at the back of the solenoid (which are closed by the kick-in) will spin-up the starter. The way you tested it showed that the solenoid on the starter is bad. Go with a lifetime-guaranteed rebuilt starter & solenoid combo from Autozone. I had semi-bad luck with most rebuilds from most shops until I found those. It's a new solenoid on a rebuilt starter, with new bushings and freshly turned commutator.

Huh! Why did Ford go to chebby-style starters?

Good question. Backup relay for the starter?!? Has Ford cut their costs by hiring Chebby engineers? <shudder>

No, you were never any better than you are now. That's crystal clear from reading this hilarious report of your imaginary diagnostic skills.

How many cans of PB blaster have you emptied on the starter so far?

I suggest you trade in your "board level" "electronics shop" for a Clymer manual, and pay the nearest teenage gearhead to rescue you. In the few minutes he takes to sort out the problem you might be able to fit in a stupid yarn about rescuing your Victoria's Secret model girlfriend from the Hell's Angels or something.

Virtually ALL starters today are "pre-engage" starters. A Bendix is an "inertiaEngage" device.

The old ford starters with the hickey on the side were a pre-engage starter- the shoe was pulled in by the magnetic field of the one field coil. Most pre-engage starters use a solenoid. A bendix used a helix and engaged due to the inertia of the drive spinning it out the helix as the armature jumped into rotation.

The fender mounted round black thingy is referred to in the trade as a "solenoid switch" - which is really a "honking big relay"

TheElectriclly engaged gizmo on the starter is generally reffered to as the "starter solenoid" or "engagement solenoid".

Techinally, a pre-engage starter does not have a "bendix" as "bendix" was a trade name for an INERTIA starter drive.

Generally on a vehicle using a solenoid applied pre-engage AND a fender mounted solenoid switch, the apply solenoid coil is connected to the main battery terminal of the starter (apply solenoid) and is energized when power is applied to the starter by the solenoid switch.

Chrysler bacl in the sixties and seventies with their "high park hummingbird" gear reduction starter connected the battery to the contact of the solenoid and used a fender mounted relay to provide the sizeable current required to pull in the apply solenoid without passing all of that current through the starter/ignition switch and the clutch or neutral safety switch.

By the description that is starting to come together hear, I would say the contacts in the sterter mounted solenoid (apply solenoid) have failed. The fender mounted starter solenoid switch and the starter mounted starter apply solenoid are connected in series. With the key in the start position, the fender mounted solenoid (relay) pulls in and sends power down the heavy wire to the starter, and the starter mounted apply solenoid pulls in, pre-engaging the starter drive. It is SUPPOSED to also connect the power from the stud with the battery cable on it to the stud where the starter fields connect to the solenoid - but it doesn't - so jumping the 2 big contacts on the starter with the starter relay energized starts the truck.

Almost certain there is a problem in the starter apply solenoid that can be repaired by replacing the starter mounted apply solenoid.

Clear as mud now?????

Part of the problem is the language. To greasemonkeys, solenoid means 1+ things.

On most cars, the big wire goes to the starter case, and so does the small wire. The solenoid within is two things: a relay to switch the current, and means to push the gear into the ring gear.

Traditionally, Ford did not do that; they put the relay on the fender, and used a spiral-threaded gadget called a Bendix to automagically extend the output shaft to engage the ring gear. Those starters may not have a small wire. And then some people also call that fender relay a solenoid......

I have no idea if your vehicle has both or... but that should help you grok the issue.

Take a voltmeter, put on the starter stud, and measure while {not}cranking. That's clue #1.

"Gunner" <

Relay: a low power electrical circuit that controls a high power circuit.

Solenoid: an electrical circuit controls a mechanical function.

Your UPS shipping is over twice the UPS flat rate amount.