Ford F250 Starter problem

Uffe, there's a lot of things that look similar, work similar, but when you tear them apart and look closer the innards are totally different.

You can't call it a Bendix Drive starter unless it's the Original and Patented Design - what you see out there now is NOT. "Close" only counts in Horseshoes and Hand Grenades...

Sometimes people reverse-engineer things like the original Bendix Drive to get around patents, sometimes to fix problems like the ones that made Bendix modify the design themselves to get the Follo-Thru.

Sometimes another company thinks they have a better way and it's different enough that there are no patent questions - Ford's moving pole-shoe 'solenoid' design - Ugly, but it works.

And sometimes they actually do come up with an even better way to do it. Looks the same, basic operation is the same, lasts longer, less kick-outs.

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Den 14-02-2013 00:43, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca skrev:

I can only conclude that you have not seen all the starters on the market but here you is acting as you have. And the RPM that you state might be true for Toyota but it is not the only truth for all cars.

If you say so.............

To be honest I do respect the knowledge that you have and from what you is writing I for sure can tell that you're knowledge is huge. I really would like to end the discussion. Because of our individual knowledge this discussion could go on forever. The fact that we are on different continents makes it difficult to meet face to face and exchange stories on the subject :-)

Den 14-02-2013 13:51, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca skrev:

The main thing in this story is the great barriers that we saw car-wise. In USA it was difficult to get parts and service for Japanese and European vehicles. In Europe it was difficult to get parts and service for vehicles from USA (at least in some countries in Europe). I do not know what the story was in Japan but I would not be surprised if they had difficulties wit US and European vehicles. Protectionism (most likely missspelled....)

Whatever the reason it didn't affect Volkswagen, or Japanese motorcycles. When I bought my first Honda car in 1974 the dealer's parts department was well stocked. I checked.

Den 14-02-2013 17:30, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) skrev:

See that on a daily basis....

Have not seen that constellation only true MAG-switch which this one is not.

Clutches and free-runs? See them on a daily basis in all sizes and shapes :-)

It wasn't the pads, it was the crap pad holder. It flexed when you braked hard in reverse. The dealer told me to scrap the piece of shit, that it was never safe. How many model specific parts would you stock for a total import of 1000 vehicles?

They had parts for every other model of Toyota, just not that year/model.

But run [F250] until it get thoroughly warmed up, shut it off, and it behaves as if it had a nearly dead battery: a-WUMP a-WUMP a-wump aaaa clickety-click. Let it sit for 10 to 20 minutes (depending on the outdoor temp) and it fires right up again. PITA at gas stations.

"Storm> Please list some of the things you tried, or replaced.

Ha. Starter motor, fender-mounted solenoid/relay, battery and (for other reasons) the alternator & belt.

Haven't replaced the cables, all of which appear clean and well connected but not (See Mike Terrell's post) oversized. Haven't replace the in-tank electric fuel pump or other fuel components or sensors.

Folks in another venue have suggested overheating of the starter motor itself by the nearby exhaust manifold. I haven't figured out how to cobble up a heat shield yet. (Getting a little old, stiff and creaky for crawling around under a truck, don'tcha know?)

Other posts saved for thinking about, thank y'all.

You ought to try to get parts for ANYTHING in places like Zambia and Burkina Faso. Had a gas landrover holed the block in Livingstone Zambia back in '73. Bored the block, got an old fergusson Diesel tractor sleave and machined it for a shrink-press fit in to the block, heated the block with a big rosebud and froze the cyl with dry ice (which was ONLY available in Livingstone, in all of southern province) and dropped the sleave in. 3 days later we bored the sleave and put the engine back together and into service. That was just one of MANY "Zamfixes" that were required to keep vehicles on the road. Getting a fanbelt for a 1962 Corvair took over a month, ordering it from Canada - if you had money outside the country to pay for it with. Six months if you needed to go through currency control - and you paid about 150% duty to bring it in - and that was assuming you EVER got it.

In 2000 in Ougadougo, Burkina Faso, I needed a valve retainer for a Toyota Hilux diesel - none available and even the scrap-yards were slim pickings. Needed alternator parts for a Mitsubishi Pajero - had to make Toyota parts fit - and a power steering pump for a Nissan Patrol proved impossible to get in the time I was there.

Today a friend of mine gets parts for his JDM Totota Hillux Surf Diesel here in Canada in less than 2 weeks - a vehicle that was NEVER imported to North America -straight from Japan.

When I had my Vauxhaul HC 2300 (Pontiac Firenza in Canada) on a trip to the east coast the voltage regulator went bad - I was able to fit one from an old Pontiac in by bending some connectors - impressed the heck out of the GM dealer in Dartmouth. And on the way from Sydney to Halifax it dropped the timing belt in about 5 pieces all over the road. Thankfully it happened in Nova Scotia, because the next day I was in Maine - and the Vauxhaul was not imported to the USA. They got the Opel instead. The GM dealer in Norh Sydney had a belt hanging on a nail in the parts department that he had no idea what it fit - one of the pieces I picked up off the road had a readable part number - and less than an hour later a friend was able to deliver the only Firenza timing belt east of Toronto to me on the side of the road, where I already had everything apart and timed up, ready for the belt - and I was back on the road in about 10 minutes later.

Today with the internet it is a LOT easier to find parts for odball stuff. A friend just ordered a bunch of parts for a 1961 Isetta 300 out of the USA off the internet. You could do that today from Banfora Burkina Faso, or Muinilunga, Zambia, or Bujumbura Burundi - and with international courier service, have the parts in less than a week - just like we can from Waterloo, Ontario.

You are thinking considerably older than 1973. You are thinking about the RT40 or RT50 series. Or POSSIBLY the RT60 series. The RT70 and 80 series started in 1972 - and had problems with the lining separating from tha pads for a couple months of production, from what I remember.

The Mark 2 started in 1969 - with the RT70 series - a one year series.

In late '73 the fifth generation RT108 series came out - and the new Mark 2 6 cyl. (MX series, 22 and 27 being quite common).

Had to be the 1972 then - the 1972 Mark 2 was a one year only model - less than 8 months production came to North America - but the brake parts were not specific to the Mk.- and we never had any issues other than the pads separating that I can remember. We likely sold 20 or 25 Mk 2 coronas that year - along with a couple dozen regular Coronas - both sedan and hatch.

Ford MADE a heat shield for that starter if I remember correctly

-and installed it as standard equipment.

It was titled as a '73. Maybe they dumped the last 1000 of an older mdel on the US market? I was told the disk brake system was completley redesigned in the '74 model. I bought the piece of crap used, and regretted it in a hurry but I need a way to get to work every day.

It was titled as a '73 model, but your description sounds like it. I bought a new '83 Toyota pickup. I had it seven months when a woman crossed the center line & hit me head on and spun me counter clockwise. My head pushed the glass out of the back of the cab, and I bent the steering column to the dash as I went sideways. It was the only time I ever drove that truck without a seatbelt, and was told that I would have been dead if I was wearing it. My dad had a motorhome built on a Toyota chassis. It caught fire and burnt to the ground before a firetruck could get there. I haven't had good luck with any Toyota. Pontiac, Chevy, GMC & Dodge have never disappointed me. Some cost me less than $100 a year to own & maintain. That Toyota pickup cost me $3000 for seven months.

Den 15-02-2013 05:32, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca skrev:

Sounds like you have seen most of what a car can throw at you.

The PBS show on Pharaoh's Chariot showed a lot of experimental metal and woodworking in Egyptian street shops, with equipment similar to my hobby shop or that of the architectural door-maker I helped build a steam bender.

The old South Bend booklets describe how to make and recondition automotive pistons, valves and electric motors. Doesn't the less developed world have such small general repair shops available? Iron-working in central Africa dates from many centuries BC.

I've asked engineers from Asia and Africa about this, but it seems they had all avoided such demeaning manual skills if they were smart and rich enough to get into a foreign university.

Second sun had that prob. with a '68 valiant after he put a V8 in it, exhaust leak would overheat the starter and it had to cool more than an hour before it would start. he stopped for supper one night and it wouldn't start when it was time to resume his journey. By the time I got there to rescue him (90 minutes latter) it fired right up and he followed me home.

Interesting. I have owned Toyota, Peugeot, VW, Renault, Ford GM, Chrysler,AMC, Austin/Morris, Vauxhaul and Mitsushitty. In my immediate family you can add Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Sunbeam/rootes, Rover, and likely a few I've missed.

As you may have surmised, I was not impressed with the Mitsu product.

The last GM was quite possibly the most problematic vehicle I've ever owned - and I know my Dad had more trouble with his one GMC pickup than with any two of his other vehcles. Just stupid stuff - like the box inner fenderwells being too wide, so they rubbed on the tires untill, after being brushed off by the dealer service manager for about 6 months there was a service bulletin/recall to jack the fenderwells in - The hanger bearing on the driveshaft squeaked and was supposedly replaced 3 times by the local dealer - then failed on a trip to Saskatchewan, where the dealer stated the bearing had NEVER been removed and had been oiled instead - it blew the muffler off about every 4000 miles if he didn't have the points changed at about

3000 (I later found the ground strap to the breaker plate had never been installed) and a fan blade that made an unexpected exit from the engine compartment trough the hood. Now that was back in 1968 IIRC.

My Pontiac TransSport just never did work 100% - and kept giving me reasons to dislike it on a regular basis - as much as I really wanted to like the thing.

Dad's heavy half 1980? Toyota pickup had a wooden barn built on the back to carry his electrical tools and supplies and virtually NEVER had less than 2 tons on it - and he flogged the living daylights out of it. The young fellows working with him on the job called him "swervin' Mervin" and in 6 years he replaced one front wheel bearing and one rear wheel bearing, and I think 2 sets of brakes and tires. Absolutely NO other repairs. Anything that put up with Dad's use as a truck that well was a tough little truck.

Other than the Aerostar body rust, I've been pretty happy with my Fords - currently have 2 again. My used Chryslers have usually treated me pretty well - the only new vehicle I ever owned was 1 '76 Ramcharger, and initial quality was AWFULL. Door adjustment so bad it leaked when it rained - and after the dealer re-adjusted it a pencip dropped on the floor would land on the ground - and the tailgate fell off on my foot the first time I opened it. Terrible dealer PDI and service. I and my kid brother did all the body adjustments, I recalibrated the carb, and it was a pretty decent truck when I unloaded it a year and a half later - at a significant financial cost.

We rallied the 72 R12 Renault for 3 years and never broke it. The '67 Peugeot 204 was I guess typical of the breed. Not terribly reliable, but unknown 5 year history before I ended up with it - and central Africa is not easy on cars. The '61 mini was - well - British. And it had 196,000 miles on it when I bought it for $60. What can I say. The 1972 Vauxhall HC was a surprisingly good and reliable car. Sold as a Pontiac Firenza up here - and the joke was "any f'renz a yours ain't fi'renz a mine". If you treated it like a british car instead of a Pontiac, it was fine. (open the hood and fondle it's nuts every week or so)

And those are just the highlights of the last 46 years. - and not including any of the customer vehicle issues in my life in the trade (about 25 years) in Canada -----