Ford F250 Starter problem

Well, the starter relay is called a "solenoid" in well over half the Ford manuals I have, also on the online parts sites. That's because it IS a solenoid, has a thick copper disk on the core inside that shorts out those big copper terminals to supply starting current. On later versions, there are various other smaller terminals running to other bits and bobs. At one time these solenoids/relays could be taken apart, the contacts reversed in their holes in the case and the disk flipped to get more life out of them.. Riveted together now, good luck with it! If your time is worth anything, get a new one. They run $10-$20, depending on who's doing the raping and where the things were made, normally not the US now. Can be had off the inner fenders or firewalls of most Ford vehicles in the wrecking yards for cheap, they haven't changed the design much in decades, used one of two configurations on most vehicles. The engagement solenoid on those starters so equipped is also called the "starter solenoid", so if you're looking for parts, you have to make it clear which part you're looking for. Ford did make starters without an engagement solenoid, they used a pivoted pole piece that flipped the starter gear out via a bellcrank arrangement. Has a hump on the side, the pole piece cover, instead of a tubular solenoid casing. Haven't seen one of those in years, though.
The O.P.s primary problem is the starter relay/solenoid, but if it's going, the starter might not be far behind. Brushes do wear, bearings do give out. Had one quit in the grocery store parking lot, got out and gave it a hammer rap, that jarred the brushes enough to start it one more time, next stop was the car parts place, left the engine running. Got to listen to what the buggy is telling you...
Stan
Reply to
Stanley Schaefer
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Got em and thanks! It appears that the solenoid on the starter itself is flakey.
Much obliged!
Gunner
The methodology of the left has always been:
1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner
Nope..that works just hunky. Pulled the starter and bench tested everything..it appears that the starter solenoid itself is "iffy" Only two screws holding it to the starter body. removed it, appled power to it..and sometimes it kicks..other times it doesnt. One of the 5/16 copper primary power bolts is loose. I suspect its not making good contact inside. I spritzed around and down it as best as I could..couldnt get the shell off of it and then put a good nut on it and tightened it down and now it works properly. Im still a bit nervous about reinstalling it on the starter and putting it back in the truck. Im afraid she will go somewhere and need a tow back to the house.
Thanks!
Gunner
The methodology of the left has always been:
1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner
the solenoid
I do occasionally. It appears the switch in the steering column is also flaky. It gives me a regular 13vts when in neutral and kicking the key to start engagement portion. Occasionally 4-11volts in Park..other times..nada.
So as long as she can fire it up in Neutral...that will work ok.
Its the starter solenoid thats iffy.
is a *brand
Thanks!!
Gunner
The methodology of the left has always been:
1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner
The solenoid or the contacts which it operates. It is apparently both a solenoid for engaging the starter to the ring gear, and also a relay, closing heavy duty contacts.
Good Luck, DoN.
Reply to
DoN. Nichols
The "Bendix" was a system to engage and disengage the starter motor from the engine. It consisted of a helical "spline" on the shaft and a internally splined pinion gear. When the starter motor started to turn inertia causes the pinion to remain stationary, initially. The helical spline caused the pinion to move along the shaft and engage the "ring gear" on the flywheel, thus rotating the engine. The pinion and the starter motor shaft were connected together by the "bendix spring" that served to retract the pinion when the speed of the flywheel mounted gear exceeded the speed of the pinion.
The Bendix system was apparently phased out some 50 years ago and replaced by an overrunning clutch design.
see
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(engine) for more details.
Reply to
John B.
Thaniks for the info. I only rememberd the old starters with the starter conneced directly to the battery and the solenoid wire from the ignition switch fireing everything off. MY 2001 Ranger is done the same "old way" as is the wifes Saturn.
So I was a bit confused when I found the starter relay on the firewall as I dont recall ever seeing it done that way before.
Thanks guys!
Gunner
The methodology of the left has always been:
1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner
F-250, 7.5 engine with a "rebuilt" starter in it. Has two wires...the small wire controling the starter solenoid and a big one carrying the load from the "starter relay" on the firewall.
The methodology of the left has always been:
1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner
Phased out 50 yrs ago? Odd...I see them with some regularity on vehicles made in the 1970s. I had a Dodge Charger ...a 1973 model that had one.
Humm...thats not all that far from 50 yrs ago..is it? Sigh.....

Gunner
The methodology of the left has always been:
1. Lie 2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible 3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible 4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie 5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw 6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner
Gunner wrote in news:bjqjh8pgapbj49b770lh6h5eueet5c603i@ 4ax.com:
No, you didn't. Chrysler starters of the 60s and 70s had a simple plunger solenoid.
Reply to
Doug Miller
John B. fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Do you work on a lot of engines? The Bendix is alive and healthy.
LLoyd
Reply to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Doug Miller fired this volley in news:XnsA1654371B3AD9dougmilmaccom@78.46.70.116:
Most solenoids - even those acting as starter contactors - are "simple plunger solenoids".
I have four cars, three lawnmowers, one tractor, and one forklift. The four cars are all under 15 years old, and two of them have Bendix- style starters. Both lawnmowers are under 5 years old, and do. So do the tractor and forklift.
Even starters where the solenoid "helps" the pinion out with a fork and spring-loaded pusher (not the positive pre-engagement style) often still have the Bendix helix to help force the pinion back out of engagement after the motor starts.
My Toyota van and Mitsubishi Galant have overrunning sprag clutches with a forked solenoid and helper springs for a "modified pre-engagement".
I don't disagree that there are now other designs than the Bendix (maybe more than not), but it's a little over-reaching to say it was "abandoned".
LLoyd
Reply to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
And the charger in '73 had a pre=engage starter with over-running clutch - NOT a "bendix"
Reply to
clare
Nope - the genuine "bendix" style drive is pretty well limited to things like snow-blowers etc with 120 volt starters. Virtually ALL automotive starters use pre-engage starters with over-running clutches, Don't know when I last saw an actual Bendix style drive on an automobile - but it goes back to the seventies at least.
Reply to
clare
What kind of car? And what forklift?
Vast majority have one way clutch
Reply to
clare
Den 12-02-2013 18:42, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca skrev:
Maybe that is the case with US starters. However the vast majority of European an Japanese starters today use a combination of both solenoid/pre-engage and Bendix.
Reply to
Uffe Bærentsen
Den 12-02-2013 18:42, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca skrev:
Maybe that is the case with US starters. However the vast majority of European an Japanese starters today use a combination of both solenoid/pre-engage and Bendix.
Reply to
Uffe Bærentsen
Well, I can't comment on all Japanese cars but certainly the Toyota sedan I bought new in 1990 did not have a "bendix" nor did the Honda Civic I bought my wife in '95 nor the current Honda Jazz (probably "Fit" to you), nor my present 10 year old Isuzu pickup.
Reply to
John B.
The starter drive on a Nippondenso geared starter LOOKS like a Bendix, but what the helix does is turns the gear as it engages to prevent the teeth from butting. This is accomplished on a direct drive starter by the current flowing through the pull-in coil of the solenoid which starts the armature turning as the gear is pre-engaged. The starter does not start to crank under full power untill the gear is virtually fully engaged.
On a reduction starter this system cannot be used . The motor is geared very highly to the drive, so it would need to spin faster than the current through the pull-in coil could turn it to assure the gear turned enoug to avoid the teeth butting.
I recieved Toyota factory training on the Nippondenso geared starter when it ws first introduced on the 4M engine in the 1972 1/2 Mark 2 Corona and it was very well explained at that time. The information is actually available on line - oh the joys of the internet - at
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So, as you can see, although it looks like a duck, it does't exactly quack or crap like a duck.
Reply to
clare
By the way - I'm more familliar with the Japanese way of doing things than the American - having been a Toyota Tech since back in 1972, and a Toyota service manager for 10 years. - and as explained in my last post - it is NOT a bendix (inertia) drive). It is a pre-rotator on a pre-engaged gear reduction starter.
Reply to
clare

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