OT- VOTERS` VIEWS ON FIREARM OWNERS` RIGHTS AND HUNTING

>VOTERS` VIEWS ON FIREARM OWNERS` RIGHTS AND HUNTING > > >The highly respected research firm Zogby International has conducted the >first installment of its 2004 Zogby Values Poll, surveying 1,200 voters >nationwide on issues that included firearms and hunting. Working with the >Tower Center for Political Studies at Southern Methodist University and >the O`Leary Report, Zogby`s questions interestingly examine differences in >thinking between people living in the states that voted for George Bush in >2000 (Red states) and Al Gore (Blue states). > > >Voters were asked: "Do you agree or disagree that American firearm >manufacturers who sell a legal product that is not defective should be >allowed to be sued if a criminal uses their products in a crime?" > > >Voters in both Red and Blue states strongly oppose such lawsuits-74% of >the former and 72% of the latter. In fact, a majority in every demographic >group opposed the lawsuits; the most strongly opposed, at 83%, were >current members of the military and their families. > > >The survey also examined how Americans feel about Right-to-Carry laws, >with the pollster asking: "Currently 36 states have laws that allow >residents to qualify for a permit to carry a firearm to protect themselves >if they pass a background check, if they participate in firearms training >and pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Do you feel this is a good >law or a bad law?" > > >Voters overwhelming favor these self-protection laws by a margin of 79% to >18%. Right-to-Carry drew better than 70% support in every demographic >group, with even non-gun owners indicating their backing by 73% to 23%. > > >The survey also asked: "Which of the following two statements regarding >gun control comes closer to your own opinion? Statement A: There needs to >be new and tougher gun control legislation to help in the fight against >gun crime; Statement B: There are enough laws on the books. What is needed >is better enforcement of current laws regarding gun control." > > >By a better than two-to-one margin-66% to 31%-voters nationwide agreed >with Statement B. Only self-identified liberals called for more laws, by a >53% to 44% margin. Moderates solidly favored better enforcement, 62% to >34%. > > >Voters were asked: "Do you agree the NRA is right to fight gun control on >both the federal and state levels?" NRA`s support stood at 64%, with a >party affiliation breakdown showing Democrats siding with NRA 54% to 42%, >and Republicans 73% to 22%. > > >Voters were also asked about hunting: "Which of the follow statements >comes closer to your opinion? Statement A: Killing wild animals for food >or sport is an American tradition and an essential part of wildlife >management. Statement B: Hunting is a cruel sport and should be outlawed." >Statement A was chosen by of 92% of gun owners and 73% of non-gun owners. > > >The survey also addressed wildlife overpopulation, asking: "Some states in >America are being overrun with growing populations of deer, bear, or >wolves. When this happens, which of the following do you feel is the best >option to take? 1) The state should lengthen hunting seasons; 2) >Non-lethal methods of control should be used; 3) People should learn to >live with wildlife." > > >Lengthening hunting seasons was the overwhelming response, chosen by 61% >of the voters, while only 18% said use non-lethal methods, and 16% opted >for coexistence. > > >The entire 2004 Zogby Values Poll can be found at
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" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age... I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity, bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity, fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We *assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation to keep the State out of the church business, we've destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*. Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

Reply to
Gunner
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Sorry, NRA, you're two years too late. Zogby International is the research firm that *used to be* highly respected. Since 2002, it's become the tramp of the industry:

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This is the same Zogby that conducted a poll for the Doris Day Animal League and found (?) that 51% of Americans believe that chimpanzees are entitled to the same rights as human children:

"First, the poll didn't ask about primates -- a category including anything from pygmy mouse lemurs to gorillas -- but about chimpanzees. Second, the actual question gave respondents four options to choose from: In brief, they could say that chimps ought to be treated "like property," "similar to children," "the same as adults" or "not sure." Given this particular set of choices, option two was the obvious pick -- almost as if respondents were steered toward it. And after 51 percent had chosen "similar to children," the Zogby survey inexplicably translated "similar" into "the same" in its conclusions -- a very big difference. The Doris Day Animal League then reported this in its press materials."

(From "John Zogby's Creative Polls, And a closer look at his methods" by Chris Mooney, 2.1.03, _The American Prospect_)

No doubt Americans support hunting and firearms ownership to a high degree. But don't count on the results of this poll to give you any idea how *many* of them actually do. If somebody commissions a poll and wants a particular result, Zogby has, in recent years, found a way to get it.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Over population of wildlife? I have many deer come eat my plants, walk out in traffic and poop in my yard. Each day I have 10 to 20 Wild Turkey in my front yard eating what little grass is poking through the snow. But the deer are not the ones removing the wooded areas and paving the world. I have no problem with hunting but to claim "over population" of wildlife? I worry a whole lot more of the drunk driving into may car than a deer. Now I know I should not have bit on this one but I did.

Reply to
Wayne

Even better - many hunters talk about how their hobby *increases* the animal population. I just tell them to hunt in town since that's where the real game shortage seems to be. ;-)

Wayne (the other one)

Reply to
wmbjk

This is a joke, right? There really is a Zogg firm?

All I can think of here is that *amazing* hunter mpeg clip that was linked here a week or so ago, with the $100 per pound venison result! "Lobster don't cost but twenty a pound!!"

I would honestly have to say (a) to the question above.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

Hummm then it sounds like Dems polls doesnt it?

I posted it without comment.

Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age... I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity, bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity, fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We *assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation to keep the State out of the church business, we've destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*. Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

Reply to
Gunner

How much have you contributed to Pittman-Robertson and other wildlive (not just game) management funds this year?

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Hunters pay millions of dollars in license and tag fees that pay for wildlife management. Hunters have sponsored legislation that has created conservation stamps and funds to protect and enhance wildlife habitat. Through organizations such as Whitetails Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, National Wild Turkey Federation, Quail Unlimited, the Mule Deer Foundation, Ducks Unlimited and other conservation groups, hunters have raised millions of dollars and contributed thousands of hours to benefit wildlife. Hunters Do you know that you have contributed over $5,5 BILLION for conservation in less than 60 years?

That you annually pay over $372 MILLION a year for conservation?

That you do more to aid wildlife than any other group in America?

Many people would support hunting more if they knew who was picking up the bills for conservation - hunters.

(gunners note: these figures are only those from Pittman Robertson and other taxes and fees, there are many other more direct expenditures such as hunting licenses etc etc)

Then if you so care to do so..we can discuss Dingle/Johnson wildlife management funding...

On over population..you might read this..plenty of other information available on the net.

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" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age... I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity, bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity, fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We *assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation to keep the State out of the church business, we've destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*. Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

Reply to
Gunner

Zip. I think of wildlife in local terms. So I leave it alone except for supplying water. Photo taken from our living room

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Near as I can tell, the only things the local hunters are doing is reducing the wildlife population every chance they get, tearing up my road without giving a thought to who will fix it, and leaving their empties for me to pick up. All the considerate, concerned with wildlife types must live in your neck of the woods.

Wayne

Reply to
wmbjk

I know. That's why somebody had to comment. ~

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Virtually every round of ammo, every firearm, firearm related item, fishing gear etc etc has taxes on them that go to the Pitmann Robertson and Dingle Johnson funds.

Im curious..do you bitch and moan about the kids driving on your road, pitching beer bottles and used condoms around your property as well? Do you know which is which?

Reducing the local game wildlive in a proper manner is ..proper. Are you claiming that they are acting illegally? If so, you should do your civic duty and turn them in, have them arrested and testify at their trial.

Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age... I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity, bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity, fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We *assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation to keep the State out of the church business, we've destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*. Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

Reply to
Gunner

OK, I see where you're going with this. You figure that just because I live here, it doesn't necessarily follow that I'd know anything about what's going on. Judging by the volume of your posts, you're pretty smart, and now seem to have correctly deduced that these are probably not hunters at all, but bad mannered children. How did I miss it? Anyway, perhaps you could answer some more questions -

Why are these kids so old? Some of them do look the type to have been held over a couple of years, but still...

How come they're always dressed in camouflage? Is that what kids are wearing these days?

Why do they only party here during deer hunting season?

Wayne

Reply to
wmbjk

Sure!

No idea. Retards pretty common where you live?

In my part of California...indeed.

Only during deer hunting season? I thought they were constantly tearing up your roads, littering your front yard and generally being a pain in the ass all year round based on the bitterness in your post.

Now again..if they are doing something illegal, why dont you have them arrested, tried and convicted? I would, hunters or not.

Gunner

"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will, through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs, Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota). The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability. Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones, of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines." Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking

Reply to
Gunner

Fooled me then, I figured you'd copy and paste off-topic anti-litterbugging stuff six times a day to your favorite newsgroups. Don't know where I got that idea. :-)

I bet you imagine I could just look out my kitchen window, then call the cops. But we're talking about patrolling six miles of road for two months at a time, and the cops and game warden are both about 40 miles away. I know, I know, you'd get remote cameras, a red light and siren for your truck, a bigger gun than the scofflaws, etc etc. Here's what I've found works best - It's an archery-only zone, so I started telling the hunte...er, camokids, that if I hear any shooting, I'll be down to check it out. Whatdaya' know, most of them moved up the road aways.

Wayne

Reply to
wmbjk

Ah..wayne..if you are close enough to see the 'camo kids" and to talk to them..are you not close enough to get a license plate number?

If they were littering, tearing up "your" road etc etc..its obvious that they are scoff laws and you really need to do your civic duty and have them arrested, testify at their trial and see them convicted and punished.

Or..hummm are you simply blowing hot air out your butt? Again.

Gunner

"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will, through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs, Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota). The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability. Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones, of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines." Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking

Reply to
Gunner

No idea. Did you miss your meds this morning? :)

"As physicists now know, there is some nonzero probability that any object will, through quantum effects, tunnel from the workbench in your shop to Floyds Knobs, Indiana (unless your shop is already in Indiana, in which case the object will tunnel to Trotters, North Dakota). The smaller mass of the object, the higher the probability. Therefore, disassembled parts, particularly small ones, of machines disappear much faster than assembled machines." Greg Dermer: rec.crafts.metalworking

Reply to
Gunner

I love it. First you figured that I was clueless about who was leaving the trash behind, so you turned into Gunner for the defense - "if you did not see them commit, then you must acquit". When that didn't pan out, yet still supremely confident that Gunner-knows-all, you've transformed into Gunner the hall monitor - "get the plate number, take it to the jury". LOL

Here's the deal - road hunters cause me three main headaches. 1. I get to pick up their trash 2. Even though I have to stay home when it's wet to save having to fix up the mess caused by driving on a soggy road, hunters refuse to be so inconvenienced 3. Most of them don't care if the deer are cleaned out of yet another area, but I do. How to solve these problems... well, proving which truck left which trash is not as easy as you make it sound. The only practical way is with remote video cameras. If I was to go to that trouble and expense and follow up with the deputy, I might get the satisfaction of hearing that a $25 fine was levied. As for the road, much of it is public access. I've gated off the part we own, and added signs to the other parts that are privately owned but not fenced. Which leaves a big chunk that's only "mine" in the sense that I built it and maintain it. If an inconsiderate maroon wants to tear it up, there's nothing I can do about it. To help you get the idea, imagine if it was you in a four-wheeler, having driven 35 miles out of town to go hunting, and some guy asked you not to tear through the mud. You'd rationalize your position in a heartbeat exactly as you do every day in these newsgroups, and probably give me the finger to boot. So I'm limited to signs, encouraging the problem to move somewhere else, and ranting on Usenet, which I'd think that you of all people would understand.

Ah yes, the same attitude that's made me so sympathetic. What the hell, you're living your reward, which seems about right. Likewise, our local hunters are being rewarded for their attitude - tales of trash, trespassing, shooting up signs, leaving gates open, cutting locks etc. hardly started with me. Even though forty-acre parcels leave the land largely open, owners are putting up no-hunting signs faster than ever. Check out the future of hunting around here

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off the pages of Cabelas catalog.

Wayne

Reply to
wmbjk

Oh please. Once you've yakked about "blowing smoke out your ass", "off your meds", etc., it's a bit late to claim that your intentions are misunderstood.

You see, that's what I like about Usenet.... we're talking about a decades-long decline in local deer numbers. Even the tag-funded G&F recognize that, and have whittled the hunt down to antlered-buck/archery-only. Next step is issuing tags for slingshot-only. If we wanted knowledgeable and unbiased opinions on the cause of the decline, we could undertake time-consuming studies. Fortunately there's no need to wait for those, because it's Gummer's Know-it-all Denial and Propaganda Posting Service to the rescue, racing to within 500 miles of the scene, and pencil-whipping the truth in hours free of charge - that the deer are just hiding. Only thing left to know is whether they're hiding with Jimmy Hoffa, or with those mischievous salmon.

Nice try, but airspace is being made off-limits at a much slower rate here than dirt for hunting. Consider this - on our road alone, the private property signed no-hunting comprises two sections (so far), and is the only practical access to about four more sections. That's close to 4,000 acres in only a few years. I'd guess another 50 sections nearby have either gone the same way already, or will in the next two decades. That's another 32,000 acres in my neighborhood. Hundreds more sections in this county have been chopped up for residential lots, and you're dreaming if you think that all that property will stay available for hunting. This march of homes is probably unique to AZ, and I can understand how it might be news to you in CA. It's true that locals here will always be able to hunt for real... just not anywhere near their own area.

Wayne

Reply to
wmbjk

How I handle a post is largely dependant on the attitude of the person Im responding to. In your case, overt hostility gets responded to in like fashion.

So you are claiming then, that yours is one of the very few places that deer populations are declining? Cites if you would.

So which is it? Urban sprawl or folks posting no hunting because of slob hunters? I do wish you would make up your mind. Such as it is.

Since all the no hunting signs are going up..expect a dramatic increase in the deer population. See..your problem is solved and you will shortly be asshole deep in deer.

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

Reply to
Gunner

It's not a claim, and it's not "very few places". Why do you ask for cites *after* you made up your mind and ridiculed the local information offered? Well here ya' go anyway - declining populations in your own state and all across the southwest. From

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****************Out west, however, there's the mule deer (odocoileus hemionus), and its subspecies the blacktail. Unlike their eastern relatives, mule deer and blacktails are on the decline. In California, in the late 1950s, there were two million mule and blacktail deer. Today, California Fish and Game estimates that there are but 600,000. A similar pattern can be found through the mule deer's range in Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, Washington, Utah, Montana, Arizona, and Colorado. **********

Just think how old they'll be when they finally come out of hiding! Keep in mind that these are overall numbers, and that things can be even worse in areas with the most development and accessible hunting areas.

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Wayne

Reply to
wmbjk

There will be bumper crops in the western states. The trees were overgrown and this inhibits deer herding and propagation. This has been known since the days of the pioneer.

Martin

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

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