OT: Wireless network

The LAN wire from my barn to the house broke early this fall, so I've been doing internet from the sales barn since August. I just spent the day verifying that the buried wire is beyond repair. Its getting cold out here - time to move the 'puter to the house.
Anyway I want to try a wireless network between two buildings separated by 100 feet. I already have a wireless router with four wired ports so that the DSL modem is shared between two computers in the sales barn. I'm not using the wireless at this time (a wireless router was the same price as one without)
Will it work to put this wireless router in the window of the sales barn and another wireless router in the window of the house? Or do I need something else? Will wireless transmit this far?
Karl

I would expect it to work outside without a structure interfering. The specs should tell you. I have been told you can make good directional antennas using bean cans or tennis ball cans and can do many kilometres line of sight. The authorities may not like it. Don't actually know quite what you need to do though.
Karl Townsend wrote:
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If it's line of sight and the antennas on both ends are in windows, it should be a piece of cake. I'm doing similar to what you want to do, exception being that my laptop has a pcmcia wirelesscard (no external antenna) and is nowhere near a window, the router is sitting in an upstairs window, the di-pole antennas have home made parabolic reflectors, more for limiting unwanted/unauthorized access than to boost range. WEP and MAC addressing are more or less useless as far as security is concerned, though it's still adviseable to use them, it wasn't until I fabbed up the parabolic reflectors that I was able to lose the (ah-hem) hitch-hikers who were using me as an internet access point.
Performance is as good via wireless as my LAN connected desktop unit. Performance seems to depend largely on the signal being line of sight with external antennas being favored over built in antennas.

You will not be able to use 2 wireless routers, You can use a wireless router and a wireless bridge, if they have good line of sight, you should be able to connect the two network segments with out a problem. Linksys, netgear and dlink all sell bridges.
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Does not need a bridge. Put a "wireless access point" onto the uplink connector of a switch or hub in the house, and let them communicate. Good for over 300 feet.And it's not even necessary to put them in a window unless you have steel siding, or some stone /masonry walls.
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On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 04:13:54 GMT, clare @ snyder.on .ca wrote:
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Can two Access Points communicate with each other? Dave Foreman
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    Probably -- though you might need a system between the two routers, I don't know that for sure.
    However, one thing to consider is that wireless networks have a *serious* security problem. If you don't mind someone parking at the border to your property and using your network and internet feed for whatever he wants to (spamming, attacking other systems, whatever), go ahead. I would only use such a thing with *excellent* encryption, and a set of firewall rules to make sure that nothing unencrypted could get onto the wireless network.
    Some wireless routers and other systems offer some kind of encryption, but I wouldn't trust what they offer -- I would consider ssh (Secure SHell) to be the minimum (for between unix systems, at least.)
    Good Luck,         DoN.

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you don't want another router. you need a wireless nic (network card) for each wireless lan node. un-obstructed, 100' s/b okay. --Loren

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:59:50 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
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Probably. If the data errors are high, you may need to add gain antennas at each end of the link. Note that there are wireless products with ranges of at least 3 miles. They use point to point gain antennas, and usually more power (up to 1 watt) than the home units. But 100 feet isn't much. I'd expect the home units to work, unless there's a bad multipath problem with the path. Positioning of the units in their respective windows may be somewhat critical if either building is a metallic structure.
Gary

I run 802.11G here at home myself. Yes I'm IEEE comm. society.
I have one tower running B and a laptop running B. The bad news for B is lower power. (good news for me near the transmitter.)
.11A gives you higher power and longer distance. HOpe you have that.
B doesn't go through or around metal stuff very well.
Martin

I'm a network administrator and I'm glad to finally be able to offer a little something on this group that I've gained so much knowledge from.
First and foremost I suggest you take DoN's comments as gospel. Wireless networks come with a whole other set of security issues. Since there is no physical tap necessary to access a wireless network that makes unauthorized use a lot easier. I just got back from a security seminar where the instructor walked around with a laptop configured for wireless IEEE 802.11b (probably the most common standard right now), and some free software attempting to access local networks. It was so easy to access just about anything that it's scary. Since I don't know your situation I'll be general and say at a minimum you could be sharing bandwidth your paying for. At the other end of the spectrum, your personal and/or business records could be up for grabs. Having said all this I think wireless is great technology and I use it at home and work. I made this little security speech because it amazes me how many people ignore this. There are tons of folks out there on line without virus protection so imaging how little they care about security. If you don't have a firewall now you'll need one for the wireless system. In my teaching experience I've found that newsgroup users are typically more computer savvy and more security conscious but we all do the "I'll get to it" thing. Me included I'm ashamed to say.
You've already been given some good advice but I'll add one more thing. Contact the maker of your most prevalent network hardware. If for example all or most of what you own is Linksys equipment, go to their site and see if there is a "current" recommended configuration for your needs. I suggest this because technology, including antenna technology, and especially wireless is changing monthly. Also, unlike brands can be made to work together but it is typically easier to setup items from the same manufacturer. I currently have a configuration very similar to what you describe using cable modem vice DSL. I bring my laptop to the garage or the porch using a wireless NIC card that accesses a wireless router. My desktop PC is hardwired with Cat5e to that same router since it has ports for RJ45 jacks, like most do. What you describe is very doable and should be inexpensive.
Now on to the distance issue. Normally, home wireless has a max range of about 300 feet indoors and 1500 feet outdoors, depending on what it's going through. It will even penetrate most walls so you can have devices in different rooms and even on different floors and still stay connected to the network. A wireless router will typically go through two to three walls before you lose connectivity. In your case I suggest that you place the wireless router near a window, as previously stated. Also, try to keep it away from any large metal objects, as these will hinder its distance. I have to do some guessing here since I don't know all the details but worst case for you is probably the addition of an external "rubber ducky" style antenna. The good news is they aren't expensive. I've had good results under what I thought were horrible obstacles and poor results in situations that I thought were ideal. Don't hesitate to move things around because like the old rabbit ear TV antennas, sometimes an inch can make a difference.
SGF
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Can I ask a couple more questions here?
Should I get another router, a bridge, or a wireless access point? The comments above confused me.
My "old" system is RG59 (70??) coax cable and BNC connectors. I'm scrapping it out and replacing with CAT 5 LAN cable. Both buildings are steel - little chance of wireless working between each unit. I have no hubs or anything in the house (3 computers). The sales barn also has three computers and the DSL modem, all wired together to the router. Works real well. For some weird reason, the DSL modem won't work on the house phone line. ( It only works well right where the phone company box is, and that's right by the sales barn window)
Anyway, I'm thinking of pulling new wire between all the house computers to a point right across from the sales barn. In the barn, I got a wireless router and small network. In the house I got three computers and a bunch of wire ending by the window nearest the barn. No computer there. What else do I need?
Karl

I have no experience, but have read a bit on wireless. If you do a little searching you can find plans for directional antennas for wireless networks.
Dan
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external antennas will definitely work. you can buy them, you can make them. just keep the accuracy up, at 2.4 Gigahertz, it all matters
search for 'bay area network' or some such, and there's a guy who got 10 miles out of stock radio WAN parts.... Robert X Cringely as it happens. Google is your friend, search away...
swarf, steam and wind
-- David Forsyth -:- the email address is real /"\ http://terrapin.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/welcome.html \ / ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail > - - - - - - -> X If you receive email saying "Send this to everyone you know," / \ PLEASE pretend you don't know me.

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    And -- while you are still at the planning stage, you might want to visit this web site, to see how some people view wireless LAN setups as fair game.
    http://www.warchalking.org /
And *these* are just the relatively harmless ones -- not the ones who want to use your system for sending out spam or attacking other systems, or the ones who want to find enough information about you to enable identity theft.
    Good Luck,         DoN.

My only comment would be that if you setup your wireless config correctly you will not have any issues with people listening or hacking. You can lock the good units down quite well. And if you really want to get cute then you can run VPN layered on top of the built in security of the access point.
I am running wireless connections to about 40 sites and I can assure you it is secure if setup correctly.
Merle

I'm sorry if I caused any confusion. I'll try my best to clear things up now that I know more details. If this doesn't help feel free to e-mail me and I'll do my best to get you on the right track. There are so many variables and options that it's hard to be concise but I'll make the assumption that you want the best bang for the buck without installing something that will be antiquated in a month, realizing of course that the technology changes daily.
First off I wouldn't discount the idea of wireless simply because both buildings are metal. Although that does up the degree of difficulty, Antennas can often overcome that obstacle. Having said that, since you are not talking about hard wiring we'll work with that.
Since you have no hubs, forget about them. For reasons I won't go into here you are better off with switches unless you don't want to spend the extra cash. Either will work though. Your network is more business oriented than home oriented so my comments will apply accordingly. Since your old system has BNC NIC cards they are probably 10 MB speed. Many of those cards had both a BNC connector and a RJ45 jack (cat 5) port. 100 MB is far more common now and GB is replacing it, isn't technology grand! The good news is if you don't want to buy new NIC cards you can keep the old ones, bearing in mind they'll limit speed regardless of what new components are faster. I'm going to base what I'm saying here on you setting up a 100 MB copper (Cat5e) network. GB would be nice but cost will be significantly reduced with 100MB equipment.
If you buy cable buy Cat 5e not just Cat 5. You won't pay any more for it and Cat 5e will support GB speeds and Cat 5 will not. That may not matter now but you'll be glad you bought Cat5e if you ever upgrade your network down the road.
I have no idea why the DSL router won't work in the house but I'd guess it's a configuration issue. It doesn't matter though. It'll work either way. One good thing is you have less than ten PC's. I'm going to assume you have Windows PC's running Win 95 or newer. If that's true you're fine there.
I can only be so detailed here and there are MANY ways to do this but it sounds to me like all you need are two switches (or hubs if you prefer) and the Cat5e, which will need RJ45 jacks on the ends. You can do that with the proper tool or buy them premade. If your current BNC NIC cards are BNC only I'd toss them and replace them with new 100MB cards with RJ 45 (like phone jacks but bigger) jacks. Believe me, it'll be worth it. It'll be less hassle than mixing the coax stuff in, although it can be done.
There are a bunch of ways to do this but I'll decribe it as if you're going to "hard" wire everything in. In the house you need a NIC in each PC that'll be on the network. There will be a Cat5e run from every PC to (at least) a four port switch in the house. That switch will have a Cat5e line running from it outside to the sales barn. There will be a four (or more) port switch in the barn that the Cat 5e from the house's switch will connect to. You will distribute from that switch to the PC's the same as in the house. The router will connect to the switch and voila, you're up and running.
If this gets too confusing I have a suggestion. Lots of community colleges teach networking to students planning to work in that field. A call to an instructor for a more advanced student to do some side work would make life easier for you and get them some experience setting up what is a pretty basic network that any seasoned student could handle. It might be a little money well spent.
I hope this helped and good luck.
SGF
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Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 9:48 AM Subject: Re: Wireless network
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