Ping- Bruce Bergman

Bruce, Im staring a new project , Monday.
I need :
(1) 400 amp 480volt 3ph sub panel with 6 + breaker positions
(2) 200 amp 480vt 3ph sub with 6-10 breakers
(1) 200 amp single phase sub, with 20-48 breaker positions
400' 6x6 raceway
Got any suggestions for surplus sources?
Ive got a call into Romac, but they havent called back with
If I have to, Ill buy the subs new..but would rather not.
Raceway...shrug...Im pulling several hundred feed of 3x 2/0 cable to
the subs from the distro. Conduit will work of course, but would
rather use raceway
35,000 empty building Ive got to install a factory in, next to the
Fullerton Airport
Every bit of copper has been removed from the building..buss bars in
all the sub panels, wire... only thing they didnt steal was the 277
lighting circuits and the 800 amp distro
Im having to bring in a 25kva transformer from my Piles O stuff to
step 480 down to 110, just to get construction power.
Lots of empty conduit hanging 18' up.
I already rented a manlift and a forklift.
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
Reply to
Gunner Asch
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Just the usual suspects - Bernards Brothers.
Conduit is fine for feeders from the Main to a sub-panel, once you get it built it isn't going to be changed. You'll add another Sub next to it for more load and more breaker spaces.
Raceway will be more useful between the sub-panels and the rows of equipment where it will be changed and modified on a regular basis.
And if you don't want to use raceway, look at cable tray and BX/MC Cable between the panel and the equipment, see if the local inspector will allow it. Easy to run, just drop tray rated BX in the tray and ty-rap it down on the vertical risers and every so far on the horizontal to keep it neatly in place. It's safer to make changes with the power on and everything running, because it isn't loose wires in a duct, everything is individually armored.
You can even move a machine closer to the panel, and make a loop to lose the slack cable in the cable tray.
Probably smart enough to realize they might still be hot.
First thing after you get working power is to get a hot phone line and get a basic perimeter and motion sensors burglar and fire alarm system running, with central station, even if it's cobbled together for the construction phase. Now that you're bringing in a few tons of fresh copper and equipment, they may well come back for an encore.
Take the time to number it, blow in pull strings, determine where it all goes and make a road-map. Poly String is cheap in the 6KFT buckets, and even cheaper if you can get the refill balls - but when you pull and the other end moves you are sure where it goes. It's a whole lot easier to rehab the existing conduit and use it where you can, rather than starting from scratch.
You know how to blow or suck the string through with a chunk of rag and a good shop vac, right?
And use Mule Tape with the footage marked for the final string, so you can order wire pre-cut at the right lengths for the run.
If they have high-bay lighting, remember the thing about broken metal-halide lamp outer envelopes and UV third-degree sunburn. Happens really fast.
Oh, and the other thing - Never nail up a MH light fixture to a breaker and let it run 24/7/365, or the lamp capsule will eventually burst. All MH lamps need to be cycled off for 10 minutes or so at least once a week. If you want night-lights use fluorescent, they last a LOT longer than 12K Hours when they're always on...
How about air lines? Copper, ring mains, lots of shut-off valves to segment and isolate for fixing leaks or adding drops, separate risers for separate compressors...
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. :-P
Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman
Who/where are they?
Im only going to have 5 machines on that 400 amp sub. 50hp motors eat up a lot of juice.....
True. But I bought 1200lbs of surplus (still on the spools), most of which is 2/0, with a couple or 3 hundred pounds of 10ga stranded in the usual colors.
Its a shame. Burglar Flambe is one of my favorites. Hear about the FBI/OC swat team that nailed 3 perps a couple weekends ago down near El Toro? Seems they were going to hold an exercise in a closed Fed building..and a hundred heavily armed guys with at least 10 K-9 dogs walked in on 3 dumb bastards stripping the wire out of the building....
2 surrendered ran. All 10 handlers let go their dogs.....snicker....
Already done. Front office had power and an alarm. The back factory has been added. Plus..Ill be mostly living there for the next few weeks. Any perspective perps might wish for the dogs....
Of course. Plus I dug out my old Jet-Line..co2 cartridge string puller launcher...
Its on my list for Monday or Tuesday.
This and the above, I didnt know. There are 3 globe fixtures hanging. Ill check to see if they are halide or mercury vapor.
Ayup. Ive got all that to install as well. There is some..some air piping overhead. And they will be delivering the new Kiaser screw compressor early in the week. I loaded my very elderly Oster electric pipe threader earlier this evening.
Thanks for the heads up about Bernards Brothers. Now if you will only tell me who they are....
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
Reply to
Gunner Asch
Gunner, If you don't mind me snopping in on your post, try these guys. I never dealt with them but a friend of mine did. He sold them a 600A 480V switch.
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Thank You, Randy
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Electrical Equipment surplus - think "wrecking yard". Apex Surplus Lite, but they don't want you wandering in their Stacks.
16123 Cohasset, Van Nuys (east side of VNY airport) 818/787-9303
If you need more places to check:
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Sounds like the opposite at a customer's shop - the previous owners did vacuum metalizing on plastic. Bad boy sucked down 400A 480V.
Now they have a 600A 277/480 Y service with practically nothing on it, and their 400A 120/240 Delta service gets hit with a demand charge bump from the AC loads every August/September. Need to shift some more AC load over to the 480 with a transformer...
Well, put the gutter runs where the big iron sits, and you can use cable tray and MC-Cable for the bench tools aisle in the corner.
If you didn't have the wire, I'd say Bus Duct and plug-in disconnect taps for the big machines. But that stuff is /really/ pricy if you have to pay full freight - they put it on car assembly lines so they can swap out gear overnight.
Ouch! Bet he was wishing Santa gave him a "Red Man" suit for Xmas...
Get some Glaser Safety Slugs - you don't want to muss up all your hard work. Do they come in 12-Ga? Nahh, first up the spout is a "Dragon's Breath" shell to get their complete attention. O_o
Do like GTE did - make one direct inward POTS phone line (NOT over Fiber or Pair Gain, hard-wired) available in both buildings with a "Wake The Dead" gong ringer and signs that say "No matter who you are, If the Red Phone rings, answer it." If the alarm goes off the Central Station will call to see what's up, and if nobody answers then they can send the Cavalry.
Leave it up permanently, it's useful for power and phone system failures. GTE had them on hardwired Foreign Exchange circuits from another switchroom, in case the entire building flat-lined.
Remember that not all the sub-contractors or new employees will (or even should) know the arm/disarm codes or the "Secret Password" for the alarm. Since the cops are charging for false alarms in most locales, the central station folks will have to judge the answering party on voracity - if you are supposed to be in the building you'll know some facts a crook won't.
Only one? No old 10-Hp 2-stage Ingersoll or Quincy thumper as a backup? "Shit Happens, Depth Varies" Have a shovel handy.
If they have friendly next-door neighbors with another big compressor you could core-drill a hole, and rig up a 1" line as an "Aw SHIT!" air source that could be used in either direction.
Is that anything like Dad's old Sunbeam 7-1/4" finish saw from White Front? I got a Skil Mag77 for "real work", but that ZAMAC bodied left-handed saw will probably outlive both of us.
Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman
You aren't snooping - we're both always open to better ideas. When you get a bit "seasoned" the credo is "Work smarter, not harder."
Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman
Bruce L. Bergman wrote in news:
Prices have gone thru the roof on that stuff of late. Last 200A plug-in bus box I bought in June was $1200+! and that's _with_ our substantial corporate discount. While we still have the bus duct, we have installed cable tray over the machine lines, as we move machinery a _lot_. You don't even have to redo the conduit riser usually, as it's just clamped to the tray. The cables we installed from the bus duct are long enough to cover a certian area under the tray, so you don't have to re-run wire when you move equipment. Considerable cost savings.
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We used overhead ?Square D? 3 phase power buses - long metal enclosures containing buss bars and 3 or more plug in spots per side. Lots of flex.
It was a matter of plugging in a switch box and from it is the drop line. Unplug the box and move the machine and replug.
Our 50 Hz system ran in their own line. We had a propane 'generator'.
Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
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Martin H. Eastburn
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