Precision anchoring into concrete?s

"Dr. Butter" wrote in news:1163950051.444639.251220 @k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Put down 3/4" or 1" Steel plate anchored to the concrete, then bolt your angle to that. First advantage is that you spread the load on the angle out over a larger area of floor. Second is that you can at first slot the angle holes slightly for precise alignment, then you can spot weld it in place to prevent movement.

Not so easy! Two solutions:

1.) Make a frame that fixes your tracks in the desired distance. Use that frame to keep your tracks while poring the concrete. 2.) Drill holes and bolt some plates into the concrete. Lay your rails over the plates, align and shim to your needs and weld the rails to the plates.

HTH, Nick

Put it together, get it all lined up and drill through the holes (of suitable size in your plates and tabs) for "redheads" which are a line of expanding screw anchors that may be installed right though the hole in the plate.

Look for "trubolts" in the above selection guide.

85% of American industry is bolted to the slab with these. They come in all sizes and lengths.

Gunner, machine tech and installer

Political Correctness

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

My choice! you could probably skip bolting the angle to the plate, and just weld it. Greg

I've had good luck with this using a Hilti or "Red-head" bolt. Hammer drill the hole in, set the bolt, and then locate precisely to that. Depends on your load and direction of your forces of course.

Dave Hinz

I've used the bushing trick, and it works reasonably well, but depending on how large your first hole is and the drill fro the nachor, the holes can still wander a little. I'm not sure how preceise you need things, but this is a tricky problem. All I was doing was mounting steel adjustable shelf "standards", and they didn't come out as close as I would have liked.

Doug White

I've installed just enough bolts in concrete to be considered dangerous. Drilling the hole, to me, is the biggest problem. On all occasions aside from one, I've used one of those questionable designed impact drills, which will drill the hole, but are, at best, a complete PITA to use compared to a Hilti, which will locate the hole where you want it, and drill it in record time. Bottom line------if you want the holes where they belong, try to use a good gun to drill the holes. I recommend a Hilti, even if you have to rent one.

No, I'm not affiliated with Hilti-------I just don't much like those cheap impact guns.

Harold

Either use a hilti or grout/hydraulic cement/epoxy the anchors into roughly located oversize holes made with a lesser tool.

Using these "Redhead" along with bolting them to a flat bar and then welding the angle after aligning seems like the perfect solution. I just hope they don't get the idea I know what I am doing when I go in to work with this perfect solution. that only leads to more things I know nothing about that I am supposed to do. thanks for all the help. Rosco

The only other suggestion is to increase the size of your angle. 3/16th is very light. I would try for at least 2 X 2 X 1/4 or even 3/8th Tanks are always heavier than the previous one you built. If the concrete floor had not been poured locating flush plates imbedded in the concrete allows all kinds of things to tacked to the floor. No fancy drilling. Randy

That is probably the easiest best way. IF you do happen to get it in the wrong place, just grind off the welds and move it.

John

Ditto on the Hilti gun. While installing a half dozen cnc machines in a new plant, we went through 2 hammer drills,(good ones) just trying to drill a half dozen holes. We said, screw that and since we had to order a bunch of the epoxy hilti bolts anyway, they threw in the gun when I ordered the bolts for next to nothing. The hilti gun almost falls through the concrete compared to a hammer drill :-)

I prefer using brass dowels. Cheaper and good enough. like these:

Nick

Hey Nick,

Funny thing about your reply.............

Microsoft was bugging me about IE 7, and earlier today somebody said IE 7 was OK, so I loaded it when it reared it's ugly head again this afternoon. It's easier to load this crap than keep answering "NO" or "LATER".

So just a minute ago, I clicked on the link in your reply to have a look at the "brass" inserts (can't pass up a chance to look at ANYTHING brass)!!

The pix came up while I was looking at something else in the computer room, and by the time I looked at the monitor again, there was some sort of a drop-down from MS or IE 7 in the middle of the screen, asking me to send them a note about whether of not this was a "PHISHING" problem. I just cancelled, but it was kinda funny. I wonder where the heck they got a filter or criteria that would pop this up, other than the origination being "off shore" (to me..not you)

Take care.

Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario.

Next time I want to attract your attention, I'll write "TONS OF BRASS" in the subject line. :-)

Are these inserts common to you? We use them a lot (yes, also the overprized hi-tech-bolts).

Fishing? Oh, they wanted to suggest you to buy Fischer-dowels! :-)) [Fischer is German of fisher. Fischer is *the* manufacturer of plasic dowels in Europe (and by chance the inventor)]

Nick

Please don't. I might hurt myself getting to the keyboard!!

Yep, common enough. Mostly used as inserts for plastic bases, where the insert may be visible through the material.

Nope....it was questioning whether your "email" might be a phishing expedition type of thing. I don't believe that the name, in German or English, whether Fisher or Fischer, would get the phishing/spam watchdog within Internet Explorer very excited. I don't know what it was of course, but I doubt it was that.

Brian

Its always difficult to measure, mark out, and drill concrete anchors - hammer drills will wander, just a touch....(enough to stuff alignement...)

What I have done is:-

Assemble the tracks as far as possible, even if you have to tack weld struts to it. then, lay it out on the floor. Drill one hole, insert anchor, bolt down. Then, drift the assembly into position, use the holes in the base as guides, drill one at the diagonal opposite corner. Bolt down. Work your way around the assembly - the general idea is to use the assembly itself as the drilling guide.

There are chemical fixing methods (some sort of epoxy?) but I have never used them, so don't know how much lattitude you would ave in adjustment....

Andrew VK3BFA.

Use the wedge style anchor bolts where the hole drilled is the same diameter as the threads, so the mounting holes don't have to be oversized to drill through them. This avoids stacks of washers that are weaker than the baseplate.

And you can tack-weld short pieces of heavy pipe over the baseplate holes to act as a drilling guide - it will keep the holes vertical and prevent them from wandering if the drill hits a rock in the concrete. When you get the holes sunk you can break off the guides and clean up the plate before final mounting.

The big advantage of epoxy anchoring is if your drilled hole wanders to one side a bit to where wedge anchors wouldn't work without going to the next larger size - you can expand the hole in the proper direction (within reason) and the epoxy will make up the difference. And you have time to make sure the bolts are in the right place before the epoxy sets up.

The popular ones are two-part epoxies - Simpson and Hilti both make "caulking gun" style epoxy dispensers that spit out even proportions of the resins as needed with little waste, and have the ribbon-twist mixers in the extension tube.

There are also epoxies in glass capsules - you mix the epoxy in a blind hole by crushing the capsules and stirring around the rod in the hole. I don't trust that they'll always mix properly or have enough in the hole to make a good bond - with the gun epoxies you can always pull the rod and squirt in some more...

You drill the holes, clean the holes out thoroughly with a wire brush and blower/vacuum, insert epoxy, and then slide in lengths of threaded rod. If you are anchoring into hollow concrete block they make sleeves of steel screening that will help hold the epoxy at the back of the block until cured into a plug. After the epoxy has had curing time to set, you bolt down the equipment and cut off any excess rod.

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I forgot to add a ":-)" Here it is!

It was nothing "fishy" at all.

Nick