Question about building controls for a mill

Im at the point where its time to finish out the Larios horizontal mill taking up space in my shop.
The original control panel, used switches to:
master power On/off Spindle High/Off/Low Spindle CW/off/CCW Table Left/off/Right
Coolant pump on/off
The issues are
Motor is two speed, with 2 seperate 3ph windings for high and low
Table is single speed 3ph motor and reversed winding power for opposite direction.
The switches are toast. Finito. Bad. Blown, Kaput. No replacement. Endit
The table has a mechanical Rapid that works the opposite of the feed direction..whatever the feed direction is. So you can make a cut, rapid back to the start and hit her again.
I scrounged up some bat handle 3 phase switches..but I cant see any way to make them do the above, without having a shitload of them hanging off the side of the machine.
So I got an 18x 22" electrical box, mounted it to the side of the machine and mounted fuses, a control transformer, and gutted a Hardinge control cabinet for the contactors. Ill mount the control switches on the top of the cabinet, where there is easy access. Spindle has a clutch lever to engage/disengage as does the table feed.
The issue Im having is...will I ever need to run the table in the opposite direction visa vis the spindle rotation? I do have the vertical attachment..but ever mounting it is unlikely . Shrug
Or can I simply ignore having the ability to feed in a direction opposite the normal direction when feeding into a horizontal mill cutter? Climb milling in other words? Is climb milling all that important on such a mill?
Im having something of a mental block on this...I can see it..but dont know that Id ever climb mill. The machine IS very tight and can do climb easily without any issues. But will I ever need to do it?
If I put in a contactor for reversing the table...its gonna get really crowded in that box. Its doable, shrug..but is it something I should do?
I suppose not needing a reversable spindle would be the second issue...hummm...that would save me even more space.
Having to install a reversing relay..and then taking two more contactors to power either the high or the low windings....getting involved here....
Im not all that experienced on the actual nuts and bolt operations of horizontal millers beyond the basics.
Any suggestions...anyone?
Gunner, open to suggestions
"
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All of those features ARE required. Maybe not often, but required never-the-less. Perhaps, a larger control box is in order. Steve

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<snip>
Got any large AC capacitors laying around ?

Put the pointy end in your mouth, use your thumb to pull the trigger.

Perhaps HIRING a COMPETENT machine repair tech is in order...
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He is....dick head......he stated there are no spares available! Steve

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On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:26:18 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"

The mill is this one.. http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/Larios #
An OM Larios...made in Italy in the 1950s. It was the personal mill of the tool maker for Garcia Mitchel (fising rods) when they were located in Costa Mesa, California. It was actually very low time..but the paint went to shit (must have painted it over wet filler at the factory) and then it went into storage where the wet coastal air finished the paint and added some surface rust. They put it away into storage when the switches in the below control board went to shit....Probably in the mid 70s.
This is the control Im replacing
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/Larios#5422372365921682802
Unlike the standard Milwaukees..this has a seperate motor to control the knee feed functions. See the pictures. http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/Larios #
Its not that I dont know how to do it...its that I cant afford to order all new 3ph switches capable of handling 3hp and 3/4 hp, so am trying to compromise using stuff I have on hand.
There are NO replacements from Larios. I emailed them a year ago. I found one engineer who speaks pretty good english. Shrug.
So if I had $400, I could put new switches in the mill. The problem is ...I paid $100 for the entire mill and all the accessories, and I really see no need to sink an additional $400 in it for switches alone.
Hence my questions about the importance of various cutting techniques while setting up Stuff.
It is a old horizontal miller. Not a highspeed machining center.
When I fix up Stuff..I do what needs to be done. I was just trying to determine "need". If this were for a client..the situation would be far different.
Ive not had a call out in 2 weeks, so money IS an issue. Doing a little bit of side machining helps fill in the blanks and having a horizontal would be nice.
Im having a hydraulic press and another Gorton Master mill delivered today, traded from a buddy of mine down in Van Nuys. Both need work of course.
http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/DropBox#5476770291520433394
The Gorton I already have, looked like this one, maybe worse, before I rebuilt it.
I have DROs for all the existing machines, that I need to install before long. But one thing at a time.
Gunner

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Gunner Asch wrote:

Those switches you scrounged are the modular industrial variety where you stack various contact blocks together to build the switch you need? If so, you just need to scrounge the contact blocks to build them up equivalent to the originals.
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wrote:

All the motors, except for the 110vt coolant pump..are 3ph.
The switches are brand new Allan Bradleys that I bought several years ago on ebay.
The original switches were very special, with oversized contacts and so forth, and they switched the 3ph directly, rather than using contactors. Ive never seen anything similar anywhere..and I do fix machinery for a living.
But thanks anyways.
Gunner
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Gunner Asch wrote:

Lots of the industrial modular switches switch 3ph directly. What's the rating on the old switches? If you really can't find suitable contact blocks for the modular switches, then just stick a separate contactor box in some inaccessible spot on the machine.
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wrote:

Thats what Ive done..put a contactor box on the machine...Im just asking for advice about how many contactors to stuff in it.
Gunner
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wrote:

I would think one per phase of electricalicity would be sufficient. YMMV.
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Hmm, doesn't that Hardinge cabinet handle a reversing 2 speed motor already? And how about a reversing drum switch for the spindle, ala Bridgeport spindle motor for your spindle motor?
I'm trying to remember what all you described the functions as when you showed me that panel, but from what you describe here, I think you've got it covered? Oh, just reread your post, I thought you were using the Hardinge panel... Might be something to consider if it's not too big. Maybe hang it off the back of the mill?
Jon
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:13:38 -0800, Jon Anderson

http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/Larios#5422372365921682802
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Well then you put switches in the control console and contactors in another box. That is what I would do.
Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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wrote:

http://picasaweb.google.com/gunnerasch/Larios#5450582029551420674
Please advise as to where the Control Console is?
Gunner
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It done be wherever you gonna put it, since you are building the controls for the mill...
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:40:47 -0700 (PDT), Cross-Slide

Indeed.
Gunner
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Gunner Asch wrote:

Well, it sucks and I've been there. There's some sort of optical illusion that takes place when you look at a bunch of components and envision them in a box. They must shrink in your mind and the box gets larger. Get a big box for the contactors and be done with it.
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I was told once to buy a box twice as big as I need and hope things fit.
Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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On 08/17/2010 11:10 AM, Jim Stewart wrote:

I realized after a while that it's not that the components look smaller -- it's that you never consider how much space the interconnect is going to take. Take all your contactors in their boxes (pretend they're still in their boxes), set them right together, and buy a box that big.
Now try putting them in, with room for lots of stiff cable, and space to get your hands in, etc., etc.
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Would there be room for enough contactors to switch all your motor outputs as needed and use some kind of micro PLC for all the logical functions. I'm thinking along that line because a micro PLC could replace hundreds of logic relays, timing relays, etc. Wire all your switches to PLC inputs enter the logic to have the PLC control the contactors. Are you using the mini IEC style contactors?
RogerN
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