Recommend riveter for aluminum flat bar?

What would be a good riveter for aluminum flat bar? Not being able to weld, from time to time I do some drilling and screwing
aluminum together. Riveting is better than using machine screws? What specific riveter kit or brand would be good for the kind of stuff (mostly aluminum flat bar) I usually work with, listed below?
Thanks.
--
aluminum, 6061, 1/8" Thick X 2-1/2" Width X 6'
aluminum, 6061, 1/16" Thick X 1" Width, 6'
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Probably a hand tool. Does being metric or SAE matter for availability of rivets?
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John, I don't wish to rain on your parade, but I can tell you have no idea what your doing because of the half baked question. You asked about material choices in relation to bending ability, but you didn't specify what you were doing. We advised you about the characteristics of both 6061 and 6063. You went out and bought the same material anyway and now you want to know about fastening it. The best I can say is that you have put the cart in front of the horse. The construction issue along with any fastener system needs to be thought out BEFORE you buy the material. As far as rivets go, there are hundreds or different rivets and rivet methods. They all have their purpose and the correct tools, which can be very expensive. I can only assume you mean blind rivets (pop rivets), but there are many others. Again, without knowing what you are doing, you cannot expect perfection in our replies. There are a few considerations when using pop rivets. The first one is that these rivets can take considerable force, as the diameter of the rivet becomes larger. So a little cheap riveter is good for small 1/8" rivets only. Larger rivets need larger riveters. You must consider whether you need a swivel head or not. Do you have compressed air available. Do you have the space to use a air riveter? How do you intend to lock the pieces together, while riveting? This can be an issue, because you do not have the luxury of loose assembly before tightening. Steve

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"Steve Lusardi" <stevenospam lusardi.de> wrote:

Marsha,

Not in this thread.

Because I do not know for sure. Hopefully one thing will be making a much lighter push stick for inline skating. But, for some reason, getting a light version completed has been very difficult. I was able to take a stock electric scooter, hack it up, and convert it to a very heavy and bulky push stick. It works okay, but light weight would be much better.

One neat thing about UseNet is how radically independent authors are. Sometimes even the same author feels free enough to go against his own policy. One should enjoin and take advantage of that freedomness.

Even if the answers were all negative, how could I be sure that my question was expressed well enough so that the answers were right for me?

Yup. No big hurry though.

I design and make stuff. I like to have generic supplies on hand.

Perfection from someone who enjoys metalworking?

I use superglue for clamping aluminum flat bar together before drilling multiple holes. If necessary, the pieces are then separated and the glue is scraped off.
--






















> This can be an issue, because you do not have
> the luxury of loose assembly before tightening.
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John Doe wrote:

For simple rivetting of flat bar or strip together, theres nothing wrong with mans oldest tool. A hammer, with solid ali rivets. Cut yourself some test pieces Drill your 2 holes put the rivet through place the rivet head on a hard and firm surface face down, and hammer the protruding rivet shank to swell it and form another head., Nothing could be simpler. There are lots of tricks to do it fast and well ,but you have to start with the simplest of joints. Well help you progress once you have had you done your first test pieces. For hollow tube your better off using bolts and nuts unless you flatten the tube and use inserts of tube to strengthen the joint..
Adding to what others have said, that there are literally dozens of different rivetting systems which have been developed for every concieveable joining problem. From 1 inch red hot rivets in wrought iron heated on a coal or wood fuelled brazier, thrown up with a pair of tongs, caught in a bucket, pushed into 2 ships plates then sledged together by a couple of rivetters on one side and a dolly holder on the other, to the 2nd world war bombers that had 40,000 rivets holding them together. Mostly solid but many tubular ie pop rivets where a blind fix was needed. Using a hammer is very satisfying!! Let us all know how you get on. AND Dont be afraid to hit it!! Ted In Dorset UK. An old hammer man.
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...

The "shank" is the long uniform part, opposite the head? I know what the shank of a drill bit is, but I am not familiar with the term used with stuff like screws and bolts.
Anyway... Is there a tool that can be used with a hammer, to shape a rivet on the opposite side of the head? I would probably not swing a hammer towards the aluminum for that. Using a hammer would eliminate the need for the rivet tool to reach far over the work. And a striking blow is probably more effective than clamping.
What are the most ordinary rivets called, that can be used for fastening two pieces of aluminum flat bar together?
Thanks.
Searching...
I find a grand total of four results for "solid ali rivets" and zero for "solid ali rivet".
Zero results for "hand riveting snap" mentioned in another reply.
Yes, this is topical stuff.
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On 8/4/2010 1:36 PM, John Doe wrote:

The "most ordinary rivets" today would probably be "pop" rivets that you can find at any Home Depot or the like.
The simplest are "solid aluminum rivets" that you can get from a variety of sources. You can set them with a ball peen hammer--takes a little practice to get a nice head on them but it can be done. You can get "rivet sets" that work in an air hammer but they take as much practice as a ball peen. There are also tools called "rivet squeezers" that work for some sizes of aluminum rivet.
You don't say how much load will be applied. If it's not a critical structural component then "pop" rivets would be your easiest bet--they're readily available and are easy to set in tubing since you only need access to one side. If you need more strength or a countersunk head there are mil-spec and aircraft grade pop rivets available for a price--the most common brand name is "Cherry". If you need more strength than that then you usually want hand-set rivets.
If you look through the "rivet" selections at <http://www.mcmaster.com> you'll find a variety of options.
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wrote:

They're called solid rivets. They're just what they sound like.
As for tools, there are many different kinds. I use several sets that are around 70 years old -- standard rivet sets, or rivet headers. They're around 6" or 7" long, forged steel, with a tapered shank. They're meant to use in a hardy hole in an anvil but I hold them in my massive bench vise.
They have a shallow, cup-shaped hole in one end, and, on the same end, a cylindrical hole for driving the unheaded end into, to drive together the pieces you're riveting together.
Standard use is to drive the epieces together, and then put the round end of the rivet into the cup, and peen over the edges of the straight end of the rivet with a ball peen hammer. Then you take the other rivet set (mine are in pairs) and place it on top of the peened part, then whack it to give a smooth, rounded shape to the end you're hammering.
There are other ways to use them. Blacksmiths have some other tools for this. They call the set you put under the rounded, factory head a rivet set -- often it's flat on the bottom, to lay flat on the anvil. Then the companion tool, used to shape the peened head, is called a "cupping tool." It's similar to the rivet sets I've described above but it's usually just a bar with a cup in the end.
For aluminum and copper rivets, you can easily make your own by just starting a drill bit in the end of a bar of steel. If you want to get a fancy, rounded head, you can use the method of your choice to round out that cup.
This is a very quick and simple process. If you're using small rivets, it's just "whack, whack, whack." That's with iron rivets, which I usually use. Aluminum and copper are even faster.
Don't over-whack the aluminum, or th edges of the hammer-formed head will crumble.

This is *old* stuff. You need to ask old people, like most of us on this NG. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress



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The solution to an inexperienced hand, and that very problem you mention, is to use countersunk rivets. It requires a lot less skill to just "whack it until it's flat" than to nicely form a head.
LLoyd
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On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 14:34:16 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

I beg to differ, countersunk are the hardest to get right. The rivet should be inserted all the way flat before riveting and just enough to expand the other side the right amount. Just under twice the size of the hole IIRC. The two materials should be held together as best as possible so that the rivet doesn't expand between the two, think clecos or as the OP said super glue.
http://www.skinpins.com/fastclecotemp.html
Many many fond memories as a kid with the thin arms playing bucking bar mate contorted through bulkheads and inspection holes in aircraft. Oh, there's one right now... Boy does it get hot inside airplanes! There's another... Tracing wires when they are all the same color and hundreds of them, one mental slip and it is right back to zero. LOL
SW
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I find them to be the easiest solid rivet to do properly.
It is important with _any_ kind of solid rivet to make sure the work pieces are clamped tight during the clinching, and that the head is tight to the work.
If a countersunk rivet is a little too long, you hammer it down into its countersink just like you would normally, then file or grind off the excess to get it flush.
It's really _quite_ easy to do -- at least for me. I've done a metric butt-load of them.
YMMV.
LLoyd
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On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 16:44:55 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

To each their own. File grind ! Flush are much easier to change the numbers without sanding into the rivets, the dimpled ones just plain suck for that procedure. With the later the gun never hits the skin and is much stronger in more ways than just stressing and flattening the material that will more likely crack.
SW
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We're TALKIN' 'bout hand-hammered riveting on a small job (that so far doesn't appear life-critical). We are NOT talking about a guy going out and buying a rivet gun for five or six (or even sixty) holes.
Not all jobs require top-end tools. One of the first responders said it best when he cited a hammer as the only basic tool required.
LLoyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
...
How about a cupping tool with a sharp point in the center to spread the rivet material outwards more easily? Just wondering.
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On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:23:51 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Well I'm sorry, Ted had a great post, but I didn't think this off shoot was specific to hand swung hammers only. Looks like this guy is just a troll anyhow.
Harbor Freight $8 pneumatic gun and they probably sell the dimpled part that fits it or turn one in a lathe and a chunk of steel. Your right, gonna need an air compressor and a cheapy regulator and of course the lathe, fuck it, use the hammer for that push stick or what ever this bozo is fishing for.
It is really beyond me why "people" get off on this kind of crap.
SW
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We "get off" on it, because it makes us re-think simple tasks that we've made unnecessarily complex in our quest for "better tools".
We thirst for more metal, more parts, and more inventive solutions, when often what is needed is just a mashed pin of aluminum holding two other pieces together.
Does a CNC mill beat a manual? 'Pends on the task, neh?
Sometimes, a hammer IS all you need.
LLoyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

One of my pet ideas is that there are a lot of inventions or methods that are overlooked because they are too simple or because most inventors are looking for complex ways of doing things. Maybe patenting a simple thing is more difficult. I think that there are plenty of simple devices or methods that have been overlooked in our rush to dazzle them with brilliance.
For example... I made a device to suspend my monitor (it suspends the bar that the monitor tilt and swivel part is connected to underneath). It allows infinite vertical and/or horizontal positioning (of the tilt and swivel part) and it holds the monitor steady. The device consists of a 0.125" x 1.5" x 5" piece of aluminum flat bar. That one part grips a crosswise 2x4 and an aluminum tube that passes up through it. Included is a small picture, smaller than one of the thousands of Google Groups spam posts UseNet gets everyday. I used that piece of aluminum flat bar for moving the monitor over my desk or over my bed, at varying heights. Whether it is patentable or not, I just love using it.
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Sunworshipper <SW tundra.GWN> wrote:

Says a fuckhead who could not care less about his fellow workers here in the United States, a cheapskate who encourages others to take advantage of slave labor in China, as if he does not suffer the guilt of actually owning slaves.
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>
> Harbor Freight $8 pneumatic gun and they probably sell the dimpled
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Even that rings of troll, or Cliff, or what ever it is.
So you think I'm just a country fuck eh? You can't wipe you ass without some china product nowadays, get real. I'm starting out like the first generation here bud, I didn't start this mess. They want a global economy, I said all alone they were jumping the gun.
So what is it you want help with? Come on
I didn't think so.
SW
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Sunworshipper <SW tundra.GWN> wrote:

That is right, fuckhead, you do not really know who I am (even though my header information is always the same). When asking for help, I could easily nym-shift so creeps like you who enjoy picking fights on the Internet would have no idea who I am. But it makes no difference, if you wanted to play he-man group protector, you are late anyway.
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>
> So you think I'm just a country fuck eh? You can't wipe you ass
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