Rigger's nightmare

It's Irishmen. How yellow is yours after 7 or 8 beers?

Garrett Fulton

Reply to
gfulton
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Especially not with the tiny outriggers the first truck had. I'd avoid all but the lightest side lifts with outriggers like that.

Pete C.

ATP wrote:

Reply to
Pete C.

That is a great sequence, and, I am going to post it at the shop, as yet another example of watching out. The fact that we just put in some overhead cranes will make the images all the more effective. However, as to the fountain below the pole-vaulting crane in the 4th picture....Look closely at the car. It has fallen kind of sideways into the drink (again), and, I suspect that the fountain is actually a blow of water vapor coming up through the engine compartment, and being focused by the sprung and twisted hood. I was kind of amused by the fact that the guy in the gray shirt, "supervising" next to the red-shirted operator totally vanished between the 3d and 4th frames. He apparently decided that he was a bit TOO close to the flipping truck. I also kind of admire the photographer, for gettting such a good shot of the flipping truck in mid-fall. That is great timing! Regards Dave Mundt

Reply to
Dave Mundt

Disclaimer: I am not a rigger. But I have a working knowledge of physics... I can look at things and just know it's not gonna work, I'm not ashamed to tell someone that something about their set-up doesn't look right before the disaster, and can decide how far back is a safe place to watch from because I've been right before... ;-)

What looks like an outrigger in the third picture, and the angular device in Picture 4 between the first truck's rear tires and the guy in the red sweater and blue pants is /not/ the outrigger. That gray arch with squared-off corners looks like a handrail and lead-out for a ladder going down the quay wall - the dark streak going down the wall is either the ladder itself or a slot in the wall that the ladder is placed in.

(Logical. I would make a ladder recessed into a slot in the wall so a larger ship doesn't wipe it out when it hits it.)

And if that handrail was built sturdy enough (well sucker pipe?), it would have easily survived the first truck going over the top, and probably been the item that punctured the truck's fuel tank as it went by. (Note the diesel fuel splash on the ground around that railing.)

Look closely at picture 4 as the truck is in mid-roll - the first truck's outrigger is clearly visible below the front tire (visible against the bow of the orange Rigid Hull Inflatable boat in the water) and wasn't set out very far from the truck at all considering the load and reach involved.

The load-side outrigger is out maybe two feet, and the far-side outrigger wasn't extended or set at all... STUPID!!

If the first truck had both outriggers set out to the full extension point, even if they had to back the truck up a bit to extend them, we wouldn't be having this discussion. If the driver had seen the far side outrigger unloading and lifting up off the ground, that would have been a big screaming clue that he's in serious trouble...

In picture 3, you can see the first truck's front left tire is almost off the ground - just from the sensation of the truck tilting, that should have had the crane operator either dropping the load right back in the water, or sucking in the boom reach in FAST to get the load back within the capacity of the machine...

So he slams the car up against the quay wall and does body damage to it, big effing deal, it's totaled anyway. After a full submersion for any time (especially in salt water) that car is "parts". It will never be a reliable non-smelly driver unless the insurance company or owner spends more than it's worth totally stripping and restoring it. The crane operator is just getting some "hazard to navigation" trash out of the water.

Notice that the second (green) crane truck is sitting a lot further back from the water with the outriggers extended on both sides, and out all the way on the water side, to give him much more leverage on the pick.

Conclusions: Read and follow the instructions for the crane at least once in a while, and check your loading vs. angle and reach charts before starting a pick.

If you have a crane scale, read it - if it starts going into the red, put the load back down and re-rig. (I've seen some newer cranes that are all wired with sensors and a small computer - so it knows all the boom angles and extensions and the load line weight, and it'll set off alarms and stop the pick automatically.

(Nifty little device - We ordered a small crane to pick and replace a concrete fountain bowl and stand so we could fix the wiring underneath it, and the small crane was busy so they had to send a far heavier unit. [Think the big green monster in the last photos versus the first one...] Since the computer scale said the heavier bowl was only a 350-pound pick at 20' out, they could charge the lower rate.)

And water is darned heavy, raise it slowly so the car can drain.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

If you look at the first picture you'll see the boom has 2 sections of extension. In the second picture, he still has about 2 feet of extension out and the car at the water line. In the third picture his extension is all the way in and he is losing weight fast with the water running out of the car. It's at this point that I'll have to give the operator the benefit of the doubt and assume that he didn't run those extensions back out and overextend his load.

So, what I think happened is that his load shifted. You see the way the sling goes through the 2 doors, I think it slid to the back side windows, causing a shock load, tipping the crane over.

Don

Reply to
Don Murray

Reply to
Waynemak

I noticed that,, too hmmm

Reply to
Roger

Yes, I did the same, and from the style of the salutation I received on my screen, I'll go along with it probably being an Irish thing.

Who was it who said that the Irish are the only people in the world who can cut their throats with their own tongues?

(Just kidding)

But a WHOIS on that URL didn't get me very far. The most I found out was that "monkeyup.com" was registered by TUCOWS in Louisiana.

That's as far as my limited expertise with such things got me. It'd be informative to have someone with "the right stuff" tell me how to dig deeper into that.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Wisnia

Interesting theory. The second pick by the green crane supports it, because it's obvious the car wants to be nose-heavy and the sling wants to slide back as far as it can, to the rear of the front windows.

So the sequence of events might be: load is tail-heavy from all the water in the passenger compartment, and the slings (which are rigged midway in the windows or even a bit to the front) are heavily loaded and stable in position. As the water runs out, the car becomes more and more nose heavy, and lighter as well. Eventually the friction of the sling on the metal is not enough to keep them in place, and the car drops into a nose-down attitude. That in and of itself won't make the crane tip because the net load is the same - but as you say, the shock of the slings coming up hard on the pillars could be enough if the crane were right at the hairy edge.

I don't think the stones at the edge of teh quay gave away, and I do wonder what happened to one of the men at the front of the crane, who's gone after the splash - the one wearing a blue jacket and tan trousers.

The people in the shots move around a *lot* between the third and fourth (4th being the tipover) shots which implies to me that either they realized that something was going on, and all moved back, or that the entire tipover happened in slow motion. I bet there could have been a shot of the crane on its side, teetering on the edge, if the cameraman had owned a slightly faster camera!

Jim

Reply to
jim rozen

There's no hood back there - and the color is wrong. I think the fuel tank was ruptured during the slide across the stone wall edge.

Yes, I noticed that - though I thought his jacket was blue instead of gray. Sort of blue-gray. But he comes sauntering back from stage right after the fact.

What bothers me a bit is, where are the controls for that boom? There had to be an operator, and I cannot see him on the landward side of the crane, so I suspect the hydraulic controls are on the sea side. And I didn't see anyone go in the drink - so he must have had time to get away.

My suspicion is he's the guy closes to the edge, wearing all dark (brown/black) clothes, peering over the edge in disbelief. I bet I know what he's saying, too....

Jim

Reply to
jim rozen

I found another web site with same pictures only a little bigger.

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Lane

Reply to
Lane

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:48:26 GMT, Don Murray calmly ranted:

No, in the 3rd pic, there is very little water coming out and the door is open.

It appears that that mooring rail (I believe it's not a stairway railing) pulled the filler neck or hose off the fuel tank and that's the gusher in the 4th shot.

It took a Volvo driver to fix a Mercenary's Bends screwup. ;)

-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --

Reply to
Larry Jaques

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:16:20 -0800, "Lane" calmly ranted:

Both sets are 640x480, Lane. The Belgian set is centered, tho. I'll bet that MB rigger wished it was all an optical illusion.

-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Your right , must be a ladder cause it would be in front of the guy's jeans around where the dog is on the third picture.

Reply to
Sunworshipper

It's possible, but it looks like the sling is at the windshield when the car hits the water for the second time - that's the opposite of what would be expected if the sling slips, the engine end is heavier and it would slip back to the B pillar. And that shock load would be more than enough.

(The sling is up hard against the B pillar on the second attempt...)

Unless the sling slipped once and took the crane over, and slid back when the tension was released, I don't think that was it. We would have to review the video to be sure.

IMNSHO it still looks to me like the first fool^w crane operator did not have nearly enough outrigger set for the load and reach. And did not bring the load in closer to the machine center when he got it clear of the water - if the sling had slipped while the load was closer to the wall (far more wiggle room in the load chart) no "oops".

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

I missed this. Will someone please post the original link? I saw a picture of a car in the water, and a boom truck at dockside, but can't make very much of the situation.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

First, let me say that I ran a 30 ton crane on an oilfield drilling platform in the Gulf of Mexico for three years. I have also run Grove cranes and P&H cranes up to 12.5 tons on land. I am Offshore Petroleum Institute certified as a rigger, and have had a lot of rigging experience.

What happened here is gross stupidity on the part of the operator, and not a lot on the part of the rigger. Except if the operator was the rigger. The thing should have been rigged with the strap to the rear of the window.

I see two things. One, the crane used to pick up the original car is undersized. It looks like the hoist is one intended to hoist industrial size tires. Second, he is extended out too far, and the leverage is there to overturn the vehicle. Also, the stabilizers out all the way, but the load exceeds the limit of the boom angle. I would bet a weeks pay that if you looked at the load chart, the weight of the load and the distance out to the load would have exceeded the limitations of the lift truck.

In frame one, it is obvious to see that the car is outside the lifting radius of the crane, that is the lifting point is not at least directly above the car. Side loading a crane is a NO NO (caps intentional) to any experienced crane operator. (It's done all the time in the real world, but not to this degree.) The car must be first drug to the crane. I also agree with the other fellow's observation that the lifting sling probably shifted back. This is another MISTAKE on the part of the rigger or operator.

In frame two, the truck lists a good ways towards the load. That would have been the time to set it down, and go get a bigger truck.

Also, notice the yellow box in front of the crane. Where was the operator going to land the car? The box looks like it is in the way to me, and he can't swing it rearward because there is not enough boom. I also wonder if any of those stupid assed people standing next to the truck were smashed by the truck or knocked in the water. When something like that is going on, the best place to watch from is a place of safety, and there are obviously MANY unsafe stupid people in the picture.

Now, here comes the green truck with adequate lifting ability and longer stabilizers. And the people get the hell out of the way. It plucks it right out of the water, and hardly twists. You will notice that he does not need to set up right at the edge of the quay because he has adequate boom length, stabilization, and lifting capacity.

If you will notice the next to last frame and last frame, they will show you how flimsy a truck was used in the first lift. Very little in the way of frame, counterweight, or stabilizers. A tiny, tiny boom.

This was either an inexperienced operator or rigger, or operator/rigger. And you see what happened. I wonder what the cost difference was between the way they ended up doing it, and just getting the right truck in the first place. Probably a few bucks.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

My take is that the original truck is a flat bed vehicle recovery truck and if he had managed to get the wreck clear of the quay he would have placed it on the flat bed to the rear of the boom.

The entire bed is able to be lowered to the rear of the truck in order to drive vehicles onto it (the hydraulic ram is visible in the last two frames).

If you look in the background of the final two frames you can see the white wreck sitting on an almost identical truck.

Reply to
Larry Green

I recently had a machine moved by a boom truck. The operator had a wireless remote control that was suspended from straps so that the whole thing was worn like a vest. The joystick etc. were resting on his stomach and he was able to walk all around as the load was moved. And more important was able to stay well away from anything that might hurt somebody. ERS

Reply to
Eric R Snow

He comes walking back into view about two frames later - I think he cautiously sprinted out of Dodge while the guy in the red cap just turned and ducked :-).

-- Regards, Carl Ijames carl.ijames at verizon.net

Reply to
Carl Ijames

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