Salvaged Steel Fire Door?

I'm building a large wine cellar in the basement, and would like to make it reasonably fire resistant, since there will be a valuable inventory in
there. A proper steel (metal content) fire door and frame, new, from Home Despot is around $300. What are my chances of finding one from a building that's being gutted, or from a building materials salvage dealer in the NYC area? Any suggestions? Thanks
--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)




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it
NYC
Sorry, no advice on your question, but do yourself a favor and investigate industrial steel doors before you buy. They will be priced similarly, but are a quantum leap better. I used Curries doors and frames in the construction of our shop, and recommend them highly, especially after purchasing a couple of metal clad doors for the interior. If I had it to do over, I'd have never bought the metal clad ones. The slightest contact, even with soft materials, yields creases in the ever so thin skin.
Harold
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"Bob Chilcoat" (clip) Any suggestions? (clip)^^^^^^^^^^^ Unless you make the entire storage room out of steel or thick concrete, I don't see how an expensive steel door gains you much. Why not build a door out of several layers of sheet rock? That ought to be more fire retardant than the walls around it, or the floor above it.
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On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:42:32 -0400, Bob Chilcoat wrote:

Shodl be able to. Fire doors are made as a set, with the door, closer, lock and frame made and tested as a unit. There is usually a plate on the door edge with it's fire rating (minutes resistance to a "standard" fire). The rating of the door has to match or exceed that of the walls surrounding the room. Most also have brush seals to keep smoke out of the room - a good idea in this case to stop smoke damage. The walls of the room will ahve to be fire rated - light framing with fire gypsum board (Type X board IIRC in the US) will do. Read and follow the instructions of the manufactuers regarding framing, installation and stopping - it is important if you want it to work. Stop and seal all the penetrations, like cable holes as well. You could always plumb in some sprinkler heads as well...
Geoff
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My plan is to wall off one end of the basement with steel studs, and then use double thickness fire-rated sheetrock on both sides of the wall, with fiberglass insulation between the studs. In addition, the ceiling will be similar below the joists. The insulation will make the whole room easy to maintain at the right temperature, and the fire-resistant walls should give me 4-6 hours of endurance. Nevertheless, I'll still need the door to hold up. That's why I'm trying to find an industrial fire door that's cheaper than buying one new.
--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Geoff M" <geoff snipped-for-privacy@bigfoot.com.Delete.this.bit> wrote in message
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Hey Bob,
There is also a special "firestop" caulking that is used for wire penetrations, around pipes, etc. Use this with your plan and you should be golden....
Good luck with it...
Jeff
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On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:45:04 -0400, "Bob Chilcoat"

So how many bottles of wine can you drink in 4 to 6 hours? Wouldn't it be better to just wait outside? Unless it's awfully good wine. Then maybe it's better to drink it all in 4 hours than to spend the rest of your life imagining how good it would have been. Cheers! Eric R Snow
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On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:45:04 -0400, "Bob Chilcoat"

I have just gone through this sort of info to build a boiler room that the department of buildings decided was necessary (same boiler sat in the same place for 50 years, suddenly it is a fire hazard).
Two sheets of 5/8 type x drywall on both sides will only get you a maximum of a 2 hr rating. To get 4 hr you need 4 sheets min 1/2 in each, staggered joints on each side. If you have wooden joists, the best you can hope for on the ceiling is 2 hr. That is for min 10" nominal joists and 1 1/2" wood flooring. One sheet of 5/8 type x screwed to the joists, then furred with metal furring and another sheet of 5/8 firecode screwed to them.
But that's ok. Most doors are only rated 1 1/2 hr. and if the rest of your house has been burning for a couple of hours, it has probably collapsed into the basement.
While a used door will get you some protection, the jamb and it's mounting technique are an integral part of the fire rating. You might get lucky and find a used one with the right size and mounting strategy to fit your wall, but it is probably cheaper to pay the borg their forty pieces of silver.
Consider yourself lucky. Because of a 6'8" ceiling height, my boiler room needed 2 custom made rated firedoors. $750 each.
Paul K. Dickman
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Suppliers sometimes have discounted new ones that are damaged or weren't made right. My steel front door had a slight, easily filled dent and the fire door between the garage and house has a wire-reinforced window a fraction of an inch larger than the Mass. fire code for industrial buildings allows (I live in NH). JimW
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I have a local architectual salvage dealer that has a huge stock of fire doors (among a LOT of other stuff!) Most office buildings will use 20 minute fire doors for standard office doors so they have lots of doors from any remodel. Prices seem to be fair, around half of new for really nice stuff and going down from there for damaged spots.
Try looking in the yellow pages under "salvage", look for the word "architectual" in the name or description.
Bob Chilcoat wrote:

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Roy, where are you located. I tried that route, but so far have found no one in the NY metro area who has these sort of doors.
--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


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None of the good, cheap sources around here pay $$$ to be in the Yellow Pages. I find stuff through friends in construction, second-hand and surplus shop owners, scrap-metal dealers, et al. I used to prowl Canal St in NYC and a few spots in NJ for such goodies. Anybody want an old wire recorder I found in a junk shop near Asbury Park?
JimW, currently plumbing in a 3HP 60 Gal air compressor assembled from parts for $100.
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Also check your local Habitat for Humanity outlet. They often have these, and will occasionally take your name and let you know if they get any.
Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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Bob, You better hurry and buy what you saw. My cost on a 1 hour rated door is $245. A label jamb is about $140. Add LCN closer, Falcon mortise lockset, air seal, bottom sweep, and ball bearing hinges I go over 600 quick.
Any 18 gauge commercial metal door and jamb will make 45 minutes. Your biggest problem will be finding a jamb throat that will take studs and 2 layers of rock on both sides. "Normal" 5 and 3/4 jamb has a 4 and 7/8 throat.
2 and 1/2 " studs with double rock will be slightly over 5:, a mighty tight fit to shove the rock into. You can run the finish layers with J mold against the jamb, but will look a bit strange.
(top posted for your convenience) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Keep the whole world singing . . . . DanG (remove the sevens) snipped-for-privacy@7cox.net

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it

Home

building

NYC

First stop should be your insurance agent to find out if such a door would qualify for insurance coverage.....
After the fire is no time to have the insurance company say, "Sorry, that wasn't a matched door and frame......OR That was a used, damaged door.......no coverage."
I am a Field College Trainer at Home Depot, and, for similar liability reasons, we destroy ANY returned fire door that has been removed from its original box - whether or not it has actually been installed.
A previously installed door may have been damaged during installation/removal, or in the case of multi-door replacements, it may have been mis-matched with a differently serial-numbered frame.
In any case, the insurance company is likely to not pay if such a door has been installed.
Now, if your insurance refuses to pay based on the used/returned door you bought from Home Depot, does anybody want to guess who will be next in the gun site?
On a new door, we have the manufacturer and its certification processes to fall back on.
On a used/returned door, we have no way of knowing if it has, somehow, been compromised.
It is cheaper for us to destroy it.
In your case, it would be cheaper to check with your insurance company BEFORE the need to file a claim arises.
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Bob Chilcoat wrote:
What are my chances of finding one from a building

I'd say chances are very good. In an earlier part of my career, I've filled dumpsters with such doors. You'll want to look for a "labled" door, that is, one with a UL label with some denotation of a 2 hour fire rating. As time has passed, I've forgotten what the rating is, but IIRC, it's a "C" labeled door. Look for commercial remodeling sites. Multi story buildings usually have C labeled doors in stairwells. Hospitals have large numbers of these doors.
Gary Brady Austin, TX
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