Update on the Containerized shop

I've posted a few questions off and on about things like putting Machine tools on a wood floor and on insulating a shop. I figured i
would post an interim update on how my shop upgrade is going.
I decided AGAINST erecting a structure and went the shipping container route instead. I made that realization wen i figured out i would not likely be staying at this house forever. If 9 of the 10 heaviest items i own (Excluding my CAR) are already in the shipping container it will make future moves EXTREMELY easy. So i'm now the Proud owner of a 20 foot shipping container.
I started by getting a bed delivered of "granular A" gravel material, And i wound up getting about 4 tons too much.
I got it and spread it and then tamped it down (14 tons of gravel with a guy using a shovel took longer than i thought)
i bought a used container that was WAY older than i thought it was (Close inspection revels it was built in 1971) but has no structural rust to speak of so i'm essentially happy BUT i need to find out where i can buy container hardware to redo one of the locking tabs
The container is delivered and resting on eight pads made up of a pair of 4 inch solid concrete blocks. For the most part not all are touching but if there is any settling the open ones will start taking the load
I've ground and primed all the surface rust spots and i'm in the process of respraying the exterior to white
Should i replace the numbers and identifiers? it said NICU 87214 as an ID and i think that might be significant enough to return to the box possibly?
Electrical will hopefully get resolved this week
I'm planning on running 100A of 240V 1Ph to it and i'm tryig to figure out whether thats best done with four Camlock Connectors or with a pin in sleeve connector and finding 4 conductor 4 gauge cable
Since i'm in canada i know i will need to run Heat and AC to it along with lights
I figure i need 100A since as a single user the worst sustained use i can hit is WELDER + Compressor + heat + lights. which t me works out to in the ballpark of 80A at 240V
3 phase if and when required will be done via VFD for machine tools liek the mill and i will install an RPC
my only OTHER concern was insulation and so far i think my best option is to frame the inside with 2x2's and insulate with the pink styrofoam stuff then drywall over that with the best fire resistant drywall i can afford.
I've decided to delay adding windows and a human access door to the side until next year for budget reasons. It means a little more rework next year but getting the shop ready to go is more important. than making it pretty and if i have to live with a closed box with all electric lighting it wont kill me for the winter
Just figured i'd post on how it was doing and look for some feedback on the insulation and electrical issue
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"Brent" wrote:

Got any pictures?
Jon
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wrote:

Yes and no, I'm finishing setting up my website rather than cluttering the dropbox
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Brent wrote:

We're still waiting for pictures / link to your site...
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1st on the list- if you go in and close the door (to keep the heat in, etc.) make sure there's a way to keep someone on the outside from locking you in.
2nd- emergency air vent?
Insulation that won't burn, even if exposed, might be worth a little extra effort.
Maybe a small (but you can fit through it) emergency hatch at the rear is in order.
Dave
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Cars fit in them fine too...

Oops.
Exercise.
They last a long time. I'm not sure what vintage my 40' is, but it is in pretty much mint condition, barely a ding.

The four corners is all you need, and all that is normally supported on these things when fully loaded.

Nice. Mine came with a fresh coat of industrial gray, my favorite color.

Not unless you think they look cool or expect to have it shipped internationally.

The cam locks and individual conductors (type W?) are generally the way to go with anything over about 60A as complete cables become a bear to handle.

Yep. Might want to consider LP for heat though, unless your electric rates are real low.

Yep, no reason to skimp. Install a nice 20-32 space panel in the container.

Good.
My suggestion would be to skip framing and instead glue thick insulboard (like 2" EPS) to the inside of the container and then glue FRP panels on top of that (with the nice trim strips between them. FRPs are commercial grade, fire resistant, washable (food prep area rated), and quite durable. They're expensive in 1s and 2s at the big box places, but ordering enough for a container from a real building supply place should be a lot better.

Best route on this is to cut a hole in the side of the container and weld in a regular commercial door frame (and install the door of course). Use this normal door for access and leave the end doors locked. You can probably get such a door used at a salvage place cheap. Don't skip this as it's a safety issue.

Pictures, we want lots of pictures :)

That and the fact that you can't fully close the doors from the inside without leaving the lock bars where a slight bump could lock them without any malicious assistance.

RV type vents will install easily and inexpensively. Can't stack other containers on top after that, but I don't expect that will be an issue.

As noted above

RV vent / escape hatch again.
Have fun :)
Pete C.
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The walkin door is only ONE exit since the big end hatch will be dogged down, you need the vent/escape hatch (w/ladder) at the other end from the door
Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/
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nick hull wrote:

Or just a second door. I can't imagine a used salvage commercial steel frame door to weld in will cost very much.
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Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Absolutely. You'd use one of the Mr. Heater vented garage heaters, or perhaps an RV heater. Absolutely never use one of the unvented heaters.

If you're gluing extruded polystyrene foam to the inside of the container and then FRP panels on top of that with staggered joints, I think you have all the vapor barrier you'd need.

Yes, and if you find a suitable salvage place, used commercial metal frame doors should be very cheap. Commercial space gets demod and rebuilt constantly and these days they're pretty good about reclaiming a lot of the materials.
Pete C.
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Worse comes to worse i'll do the classic plastic and tuck tape vapor barrier too, for the amount it costs
I am a big fan of overbuilding and already i'm not looking forward to the budget preventing me form putting in windows this winter

I'll have to investigate that line because so far i was looking at residential exterior door prices and it hurt to look
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Brent wrote:

Extruded polystyrene isn't permeable, and it has a slight tongue and groove edge that is easily sealed with adhesive when installing it. The FRP panels aren't permeable either, and if the joints are staggered and you run adhesive lines top to bottom, they will be very few potential leaks. If you really want to go nuts, after gluing the EPS in place, get a big pack of expanding foam, drill holes top and bottom of the EPS aligned with the deeper waves in the container and fill those spaces as well, before applying the FRP.

Look for a commercial building material salvage place where you should be able to get good materials cheap that just need a little touch up paint. I've got several similar places near me and I last got a 6' wide double door set for my shop for less than half of the cost from Depot or Lowe's.

Even a regular basic residential steel entry door is like $120 (US) new, but unfortunately it's wood framed. You want the commercial steel framed ones so you can just cut a hole and weld it in place in the container. With the way commercial office space is constantly remodeled and current recycling efforts, there is a lot of used stuff available.
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wrote:

If there is one local to you..check out the store at Habitat for Humanity. Some very good deals to be had on recycled materials/supplies.
Gunner
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Gunner thanks for the tip..... Unfortunately the Habitat Re-Store had nothing but wood doors and the salvage yard i found had only a few steel doors and they were mainly steel framed GLASS doors. Mind you they had some interesting unloved tools but thats a project for another time
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wrote:

How does your local municipality regard containers as workshops ?
Containers are prohibited here in a residential area, even if nicely painted and fitted with a gable roof. A stupid attitude.
I had to remove mine once all my furniture & tools were removed from it. Council was threatening to fine me for each day after a removal deadline. It is now at my son's house being loaded with tools and car parts ready for his move. No problem for him as his land is zoned semi-rural and developers have made an offer for it. I was going to remove it anyway as it was in an inconvenient position in my garden and extremely difficult to rotate 90 degrees to where I wanted it. Also not suitable for woodworking as it is too narrow to handle 8 x 4 sheets of ply on the table saw. My new shed is supposedly being erected tomorrow, 28' x 15' for metalworking and the old shed, 24' x 13' is woodworking only. First priority for new shed is shelving, I have 3 pallet racks to assemble and shelves and boxes to remove from the spare bedroom.
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My container falls through the cracks of zoning ALTHOUGH my city is a bit of a unique mess that way.
there are 17 different zoning bylaws in force within my overall city due to a forced amalgamation. Ine one secdton of town (Called Kanata) they have such crazy and draconinan bylaws that the were controlling the color you point your house the erection of a clothesline and all sorts of things like that. Basically the town council was the HOA for that municipality. If you didnt like it you moved a few miles away form that small pocket of prudes. (The overwheming majority of the city were IT type people who wanted a perfect little suburbia) those who disagreed with that picture lived elsewhere in nearby locations.
Where i am (Goulbourn) was a much more rural area. and the laws and regulations reflect that. my "town" has just recently been "upgraded" to be considered a suburb in the last 5 years form being a rural area
But the container is not plumbed into the house and will be on camlocks to house hydro.
its does not fit their definition of a structure so its not a structure. =) i beleive that the foundation is where the definition lies
I then checked the "Property Standards" Bylaws. Property standards eyesore in government speak.
The container itself is not prohibited there but there are rules about appropriate coatings for wood and metal structures. Basically It arrived Graffitied and rusty and both of those are disallowed (And have since been rectified)
The container s however more sturdy and better looking than the shed it replaced and in the exact same spot. Neighbours have been happier to see the clean white structure than the rotting old shed.
I'm safe to have a container and they are frequently used for on site tool storage by construction companies (Even in residential areas when the size of job is appropriate for it) And Containers are rented for house moves here as well
In theory where my old shed was and where this container is are in violation of "setback" regulations so if i were to put it on a foundation and put plumbing in i would need a zoning variance. But 1 I dont want a zoning variance and 2 i WANT and intend to move this shop. I will not be staying in the house i live in forever so i want a mobile workshop and not a Structure. and that it is not built but it is parked if it comes down to that. I can "park" on the setback
Hope that makes sense
Brent Philion Ottawa Canada
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wrote:

I visited second son in a townhouse complex in Kanata, Christmas 1993 - Worst damned shack town I was ever in. Cockroaches big enough to ride. Gerry :-)} London, Canada
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For the love of Pete!
Prune your friggen posts!
Cheers Trevor Jones
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    [ ... ]

    Might I suggest that each window have an opaque panel which could be swung in place or inserted to keep people from being able to see what is in there when things are closed up? No sense in tempting people -- depending on your neighborhood, of course.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
--
Email: < snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
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On Sep 12, 12:34 am, snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) wrote:

Very good idea thanks.
I'm not too worried in this neighbourhood especially since form a shop and thievery perspective the SNAP ON truck presents a far more appealing target than my little shop. But thats not to say that its not a very good preventative measure.
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Still venetian blinds would be a good idea, it lets you control lighting and can give privacy if you want.
Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/
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