I have the engine disassembled but I can push and pull on the crank and there is some movement, but again that may be because it is disassembled. I will try the piston trick.
So guys is it worth me trying to rebuild or not? I did find a briggs intek 6.5 horse for about 250 bucks. It does not have electric start.
Again, part of me wants to try it. I like learning. I have read some old books I have on rebuilding small block chevys (which I know is somethign different.) But again, I think a rod is 40 bucks and that is not counting rings and a gasket set at a minmum.
Do you think older cast iron engines such as this are better than the newer aluminum ones? By the way, if someone can help give me and idea on how to get the crank easily out, I have acess at work to a micrometer and/or caliper. I am assuming I can use a puller to take the flywheel off and with that off the crank will slide out?
Aw heck, look around for the nearest ARA automotive rebuilder. He might not sell you the parts, but he'll boil, bore and hone for 30 to 60 bucks. And he will give you the skinny on the parts needed and where to get them.
My guess is you're looking at a .010 over piston and rod, maybe valves. If the oil never got changed, then maybe a crank and cam.
I rebuilt a Kohler K (12hp) 8 years ago on my dads Case 195 and the sumbitch ran so well I got the parts to go .020 over in the future. Dam thing outruns my 18hp Briggs twin, go figure...
Don't forget to tip the ARA guy for his advice and measuring things...
I got it working last night by just lubig up the shaft. I have one question though.
How close is "good enough" when dealing with an engine such as a tiller like this in terms of the bore and crank journals being perfect? I would like to attempt to rebuild it because I have never doen so before but I don?t have the measuring equipment to check those two items. Can I go over the crank jhournal with 00 steel wool to clean it up to see what it looks like? I noticed just visually it looked ok, however there is a very small area of "material" that I cant seem to get off. Like maybe it was aluminum left over from the connecting rod?
I am just curious as to what level of preceision is needed for a tiller that is only used ocassionally in the summer. But at the same time I would not want to spend the time and effort and have the thing blow up the first time I used it.
You have received a lot of good advice about rebuilding your engine. I will probably get a lot of flak for it, but here is another thought. The connecting rod needs to turn on the crankshaft without any binding whatsoever. It also needs to not have really noticeable up-and-down clearance. If you get the crankshaft journal cleaned and polished you can install a new rod and see how it fits. Here's the highly controversial part: If it seems a little too loose, you can carefully file or sand the rod or cap to tighten it a little. Put the sandpaper on a good flat surface if you want to sand it. Work slowly and carefully, check often, and do not take off so much that there is any binding. Leave just a little looseness all the way around.
These little engines will often run and give long service when badly worn or otherwise not up to new standards. If you have the time and inclination, have fun with it.
You MIGHT get away without - but when a rod goes it can be because of poor lubrication or overheating - which will (or may) have affected the piston as well
On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:36:18 -0600, the infamous "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" scrawled the following:
The half-dozen folks who repeatedly reply to him should, huh?
-- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
I got it working last night by just lubig up the shaft. I have one question though.
How close is "good enough" when dealing with an engine such as a tiller like this in terms of the bore and crank journals being perfect? I would like to attempt to rebuild it because I have never doen so before but I don?t have the measuring equipment to check those two items. Can I go over the crank jhournal with 00 steel wool to clean it up to see what it looks like? I noticed just visually it looked ok, however there is a very small area of "material" that I cant seem to get off. Like maybe it was aluminum left over from the connecting rod?
I am just curious as to what level of preceision is needed for a tiller that is only used ocassionally in the summer. But at the same time I would not want to spend the time and effort and have the thing blow up the first time I used it.
Really the best thing to do is have somebody measure the cylinder bore, and the crankpin journal. If both are way out of spec you are wasting your time. Greg
Do you think older cast iron engines such as this are better than the newer aluminum ones? By the way, if someone can help give me and idea on how to get the crank easily out, I have acess at work to a micrometer and/or caliper. I am assuming I can use a puller to take the flywheel off and with that off the crank will slide out?
Same starter unit and same info that the factory book and training will give you. The best thing for them is a bit of polishing compound. Lap the parts so they move free. Clean them off very well and install.
You basically want the pinion to be loose on the shaft and lock up when it engages the flywheel. The spring on there is just designed to hold the pinion down. The engine rpm will be fast enough to kick the pinion out of engagement. You REALLY don't want to see what happens to one of those starter motors if the pinion manages to hang in the flywheel when you throttle it up. BANG doesn't begin to describe it.
stryped fired this volley in news:a314c444- snipped-for-privacy@k8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
If the other poster was correct about the "HH" version, instead of the "H" version discussed earlier, then yes; generally cast iron engines are of better durability than aluminum ones -- perhaps with the exception of Honda engines.
But it's troubling that a "heavy duty" engine would have a self- bearing rod...
I have a vintage 1962 Briggs updraft 8 on a genset. It cranks first time, every time.
They build various lines of engines like the rest. The low end occasional use engines use a plated aluminum bore, plain bearings and splash lube.
The next step up uses a cast iron bore liner and replaceable rod bearing.
Next comes the sleeve bearings on the crank and replaceable rod bearings with cast iron bore with pressure lube.
Higher on the chain are the iron bore, roller bearing, replaceable bearings on both ends of the rod with pressure lube and filters.
This list applies to 2 and 4 stroke engines gas engines on consumer items. Get into true commercial equipment and you won't find anything but the last two types.
You can still get all cast iron engines but they are rare now. With most of the stuff sold being set at a price point the companies design accordingly. If the "typical" buyer uses the tiller twice a year for 4 total hours a plain engine would meet the price point. Then you sell the "heavy Duty" version with the better engine. If you wanted the the top end you bought a (pre MTD) Troy-Bilt to match you're usage. Unfortunately MTD started building them to meet price points. Just like all the rest. Even the commercial lawn equipment folks are trying to do it.
The problem is that some things don't translate well when built to a price point.
That's when you start hearing the "Don't buy XYZ brand, they are junk", and the companies start getting bad press.
Northern's catalog prices seem to be the 'street' price you can bargain local dealers down to if you're so inclined. Personally I would try to rebuild it for the learning experience alone, although I might also buy the other engine because I have to share a Tecumseh OHH55 between the log splitter and the sawmill. As you can see, $250 isn't a super deal.
Unless something has changed over the years the low end B&S and Tecumseh engines had a plain aluminum bore, and a hard chrome plated piston. You can bore the aluminum blocks over size, but not worth the hassle on the smaller HP engines. As for the OP's HH60, it has a cast iron block, plain aluminum piston, the mains could be ball bearing or sleeve, and the connecting rod is probably the same one for the aluminum block engine. The engine was the same spec's wise and dimension. Gaskets were all the same from the aluminum block to the iron block, at a glance you could not tell them apart.The HH60 was a better engine, but still not great! Greg
I believe you! My point was simply that snowblowers don't get exposed to dust and dirt like tillers do. They get exposed to snow, which is frozen water, which can cause rust. A light oil film ain't all bad in a sit like that.
The Tecumseh SnowKing (H60) engine on my snowblower (about 30 years? old at the time started to rattle one day after the governor stuck open. I pulled it off and replaced it with another that was available to me. The next spring I pulled it apart, filled the rod cap, scraped the bearing surface, etched the aluminum off the crank-pin with oven cleaner, and threw it back together with RTV for a gasket.
I bolted it to an old Eclipse tiller I salvaged from the scrap yard und tilled up the 30 year old sod-on-clay yard, tilled in a couple yards of TriMix. It tilled my garden for a few years untill I built a shed over it - then it sat tarped outside for a few years before I sold it at a garage sale a couple years ago. It smoked a bit, used a bit of oil, but still pulled like a trooper. (and I didn't even re-ring it. When I pulled it apart it couldn't have had more than half a cup of oil in it)
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