tractor solenoid

On 3/13/2012 12:13 PM, Karl Townsend wrote: ...

Best guess w/o diagram would be it is ground and got whacked. (I presume you disconnected it when you added the new ground?)

Out of curiosity, a 3600 _what_????

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Fix Or Repair Daily, 1976

Could it be that the solenoid provides 12V path the the ignition coil when activated, but then provides 6V after its released? Pretty typical on older (not old) vehicles. Usually an ignition resister is bypassed when the solenoid is activated. On old Fords they used a resistor wire. Dodges had a ceramic resister on the firewall. I never really worked on my Chevys ignitions much. They always had other things to fix.

One symptom we used to find on those older ignitions was that a vehicle would start, but as soon as you let off the key it would die. (Not your problem I know). That always meant the resister circuit was bad.

Usually the second wire goes directly to the coil, bypassing the voltage = drop resistor ( ignition ballast resister ) so that there isn't too low = of a voltage getting to the coil when the starter motor is actually = cranking over.

At all other times, the resitor will be placed in series with the = coil--the purpose here is to keep the coil from overheating and burning = itself in the event the ignition switch is left in the on position with = a engine stopped and the points are contacting one anonther.

In other words, either it connects directly to the points, or else it = connectects onto ^^^that guy,^^^ at the same terminal that also goes to = the points, whichever one is closest....

OH, yeah? We got _snow_ last night in southern Oregon.

If it's only steam, you can be OK.

Ignition wire to the coil is my guess.

Velly intelesting.

Give us the schematic, please.

-- And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. -- Anaïs Nin

On an old tractor? You're kidding.

The coil bypass thing must be it. But, I had bypassed the resistor wire long ago when electronic ignition was installed. Only thing that makes sence is that wire was tied to ground and the resistor burned out.

Thanks for the advice, I can let this one go.

karl

Actually, above after posting I got to thinking I recalled you had the appropriately named manufacturer's product ( :) ) and that the model number seemed familiar for them so I dags and discovered was so...

I did notice in one of the links that came up was an outfit w/ the full service manual claiming it included schematics for what seemed a pretty reasonable price. I didn't save the link but it shouldn't be too hard to find if were interested.

I have to note that while pay dearly for the green paint, that all the JD manuals, parts, schematics are online-accessible or if so very old they actually weren't scanned, the dealer has 'em and is happy to let look/copy/etc. That's been worth the initial premium many times over here...

That was grounded was my guess above; otherwise you would have either smoked the gauges if they were being run off 6V and you put 12V there or something else would likely've smoked in their stead... :)

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I -love- doing that.

Agreed.

Bueno, bwana.

-- Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the ultimate. -- Chuang-tzu

i do have the original ford manual. It shows a generic schematic that is NOT what I have. For this, it shows the simple single control wire solenoid. Plus, there have been many changes in the last forty years.

I agree, john deere quality and service can't be beat. But there's a reason all the parts are painted green. Gold might be more appropriate. I spent $600 replacing the windsheild wiper motor two years ago, as an example.

On 3/13/2012 7:16 PM, Karl Townsend wrote: ...

It's all deductible... :)

I have a windshield wiper motor out on the 4440 but it rains so seldom out here I never miss it... :)

I've not priced it but it's probably not far off the above.

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Probably made by some other company and it's used on any number of products made by any of several different manufacturers.

Uh I can get you schematics for just about ANY tractor ever built from the F-series add on light kit, the 2N system and more.

The 3600 in gas an diesel are both online. Was just looking at them on yesterdays tractor. The solenoid you have is a simple unit, same one Ford uses on 90% of their stuff from tractors to cars.

The body of the unit needs to be grounded very well, Then you connect your two battery leads up. Then if you look at the small terminals you will find Terminal S and Terminal I. The S terminal goes to the starter switch through the safety switches. This one should get 12 volts when the key/button is activated to start the engine. The I terminal goes up to the coil and bypasses the inline resistor that drops the voltage to a points system so that the plugs fire better.

The three terminal unit would be used on a diesel tractor since that wouldn't need the ignition terminal.

The ignition terminal connected to ground WILL burn out that solenoid very quickly. They ground through the metal body.

On 3/13/2012 9:10 PM, PrecisionmachinisT wrote: ...

It may well be sub'ed but it definitely will be an OEM-only unique part...very few things aren't (and Deere, of course, isn't unique in that). That's not to say one couldn't/can't kludge but there's no point in it; the time spent in doing such customization is more valuable doing more productive things. Overall, the green paint pays for itself in paying applications--it may be less appealing in homeowner-class.

On the non-JD front, I've a JLG 40H manlift w/ a well-known brand of proportional controls on the major hydraulic control functions but they can't supply a replacement for the particular one used; only JLG has the specific variety that is plug'n play. The ramp and rate circuity is unique and again not worth the effort/time to try to reverse engineer.

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On 3/13/2012 10:52 PM, Steve W. wrote: ...

Had just come back 'cuz got to thinking about this that if the resistor had opened and was his fault then he definitely needed to check on what his bypass current was going to be if had a direct ground connection.

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That is a new one, mine is a 1963 Super Major = 5000 (in USA)

If that were the case grounding it would definitely let the smoke out. Sounds to me he has an insulated base solenoid as used on AMC, Jeep and Mopar vehicles instead of the commonly used (on Ford and many others) grounded base unit. On many vehicles the power from the ign /start switch went to the S terminal, and the I terminal was grounded through the neutral start switch. On others there was a vacuum switch that disconnected the solenoid ground when the engine started and developed manifold vacuum, so you could not keep cranking the engine after it started.( and could not attempt to restart a running engine)

Not sure how the 3600 was origionally wired. Is there a safety switch on the seat? Some could not be started unless the stick was in neutral, the clutch to the floor, and weight on the seat.

resistor ( ignition ballast resister ) so that there isn't too low of a voltage getting to the coil when the starter motor is actually cranking over.

purpose here is to keep the coil from overheating and burning itself in the event the ignition switch is left in the on position with a engine stopped and the points are contacting one anonther.

connectects onto ^^^that guy,^^^ at the same terminal that also goes to the points, whichever one is closest.... OP didn't say if it was the 3600 gas or the more common 3600 Diesel. If Diesel, definitely NOT an ignition resistor bypass - and on those gas tractors an ignition resistor bypass was not a common setup. The solenoid as described does not sound like an ignition bypass anyway. An ignition bypass would not have 6 volts without the wire connected, and would NOT explain the tractor starting when that terminal was grounded. I would say 99.999% certain it is NOT an ignition related item - but rather a safety interlock starter dissable device.

And the explanation for why the ignition resistor is used (when it is) is not accurate either.

The ballast resistor is used to limit coil running current while allowing a hot spark when cranking. The coil is designed to run on about 8 volts. When cranking a cold engine, the battery voltage can drop to about 9.6 volts , more or less - so without the resistor in the circuit you get a hotter than normal spark when cranking, and with the ballast in circuit you get full spark when running.

I'd be willing to bet the solenoid he has installed does NOT ground through the bracket.(metal body). Only a bit better than 45 years experience speaking.