Using carbonator pump for TIG water cooler?

wrote:


Greetings Carla, Carbonator pumps are used for tig cooler pumps in stock units. The bronze body gear pumps that is. Look at Teel pumps and you will see that they list a pump for both carbonator and tig cooler use. The pump P/N is 2P3838. ERS
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I won this carbonator on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&itemu55307999
I plan to wire it using a 24V relay, so that it only would run when the welding machine opens the water valve. That would only happen between the time of preflow and postflow. I already have a phase converter
http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Phase-Converter/
and the welder
http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Welding/00-Hobart-CyberTig-Welder/
and they are both noisy enough so that I do not have to worry about brief periods when the water valve opens.
My plan it to connect it as follows: plastic bucket -> pump -> condensor unit for heat exchange, cooled by fan -> 1/4" hose -> welding machine's water valve -> tig torch -> 45V11 power adaptor -> 1/4" hose -> bucket.
Does this pump (see ebay link above) have any lift?
Does it need to be primed?
Is that reservoir that's pictured of any use (would be great)?
Can I use water with antifreeze, since it gets cold in my garage in winter?
i
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:41:59 GMT, Ignoramus5533

The cylinder with the unit is an accumulator/mixer. You do know what carbonator pumps do..right?
Lift...some. Mount it on top of the 5 gallon bucket and it will self prime just fine.
Iggy...you seem to have a fascination with having all the toys turn on and off with the pedal. Im not terribly sure thats a good idea. That little motor wont cost you dick in power costs and frankly..I rather like having my torch circulating at all times rather than just when the pedal is pushed down. You are going to be starting and stopping that motor constantly. Just leave the damned thing run while the welder is running and if you simply MUST have something to complicate things..let the welders water valve do the work. Personally..on NONE of my 3 tig machines, does the water get turned on and off whenever I kick the pedal. When the machine comes on..so does the chiller. When the machine is turned off..so does the chiller.
Im a firm believer in the KISS princible. But..shrug..I also believe in Murphys Law.
btw..you see that round headed "bolt" sticking out of the bottom of the pump housing below the stub of the big hose?..thats the pressure bypass valve. If you hook your water to the water solenoid..you will be giving that valve a real work out.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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I am embarrassed to say, not really. I have no idea what they do. I know that they are pumps.

That's very good.

When humidity is appreciable, running cold water through a torch would create condensation and poor welds wil result. Welding books suggest against that, not that I am an expert.
If I use my welder's water valve and it would not let water circulate through the torch, the carbonator pump would be running against a closed valve, not so nice, I suppose. Having this thing on a relay is very easy and I do have all the relays and such. It is trivial.

Now that is a good argument. More relays and stuff, more possibility of failure.
I think that the answer depends on whether the pump is hurt by running against a closed valve. Some people said it would overheat.

Yes, I see it.

And what is the implication of that?
i
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:03:07 GMT, Ignoramus5533

That water will be at startup..at room temperature. Not cold, unless your shop is cold. It will very soon reach warm. Seldom hot, but warm. Id think that condensation is the least of your issues. Shrug.

That water will be working the pressure relief valve, which bypasses the hose if the water valve is shut off. So it doesnt built up so much pressure it blows your hoses.

It means that sooner or later, the valve will fail. Hopefully in an open condition. That pump WILL pressure up enough to rather nicely balloon and then explode your hoses, if the water flow is obstructed and the pressure relief valve fails in the closed position. Think of it as a safety pressure regulator.
Now Im just a simple minded country boy..but Im a machine tool service tech by trade...and as such, have a great belief that things should be as uncomplicated as possible. Hence I do things as simple as possible. I dont make complicated Rollamatic door hinges on tool boxes when a simple piano hinge works just fine, nor do I build complicated control panels with multiple control relays, when a simple on/off switch will be dandy. Shrug. Do as you see fit, its your machine. I suspect we have different design philosophies <G>
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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Thanks Gunner. I read both of your posts. It's a good food for thought and I agree that simplicity, when appropriate, is best.
i
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:08:13 GMT, Ignoramus21085

my pleasure <G>
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:03:07 GMT, Ignoramus5533

"A water cooler and carbonator consisting of a water reservoir, apparatus for cooling the reservoir, and a carbonation chamber disposed within the reservoir. Cooled water is transferred to the chamber from the reservoir and a pressure regulated container is used to supply the chamber with carbon dioxide gas, resulting in the production of carbonated water."
They are the pumping device used in bars, and anyplace with a softdrink dispenser to supply carbonated water, which is usually mixed with the various syrups to give you Coke, Pepsi and so forth on tap.
When you go to McDonalds, and pour yourself a Coke, somewhere in the bowels of the big machine you are standing in front off, is a water supply, filter unit, a carbonator and pump, a tank of CO2, and a bunch of tanks or boxes of syrup. When you press Coke...it supplys the carbonated water, mixes in the proper amount of syrup and delivers it to your StarWars Special Offer glass <G>
Im sure you have gotten a soft drink that was flat, or watered down, or just plain nasty. This is due to either being out of CO2, or out of syrup, generally. Or old, stale syrup. Some of the less used beverages can go gnarly before its used up inside the machine.
Often the gear to do this, generally in bars, is in a back room, as there is limited space behind the bar. Sometime during a slow period..ask the bartender to show you how it all works.
Most beers are simply delivered without any carbonation, but simply use CO2 as a pressureizing agent on the keg in the back room
This will end todays lesson on semi- useful trivia brought to you by the good folks at Gunner U. Send in your boxtops for a nifty secret decoder ring. Please enclose $29.95 for shipping and handling. Void if prohibited in your Sector.
Till next week, nanuu nanuu.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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Thanks, that was a good intro. i

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Gunner Asch writes:

Or out of ice over the cold plate flash chiller. Warm soda is flat soda.
Carbonator pumps put out way more than 100 psi. That's the CO2 pressure in a carbonator tank that the pump must overcome to inject tap water, which is why you need a pump to start with (tap water being way less than 100 psi).
http://www.truetex.com/carbonation.htm
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Nice page Richard. Just curious. My tig torch and welder warn against pressure over 50 PSI. How can I limit it for my carbonator pump.
i
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Ignoramus6607 writes:

I expect you'd need a bypass regulator, since the pump must need flow to stay cool, so a static (?) regulator wouldn't suit.
Or how about this: you could get a whole McCann's carbonator unit (pump, stainless pressure vessel, level switch) for about $200 or less on eBay, and pressurize it with 50 psi air instead of CO2, and then you'd have a stable 50 psi water out. And with a CO2 tank you could make soda after work.
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I see. What are these regulators called? I am not sure if my pump (which I have not yet received) has one already.

Do you have something that I can look at (item number etc)? I would love to make carbonated water.
i
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Ignoramus26744 writes:

http://www.mccannseng.com/html/carbo.htm
Search eBay using this term:
(mccann,mccanns) carbo*
Just now it turned up 11 units available there.
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"Fountain" soda - aka the type in a cardboard 'milk like' container is without water and soda. That is flat. It is syrup. If a baby has colic or gas on the stomach - get some from the fountain people - just a pint or less - and put it in a baby bottle with water. Make it just like to drink - the baby will drink it and the soda will absorb the gas. Been there done it. Grew up in a family of 5 kids.
I used to have a cold plate - big chunk of Al - that is for sure. And a Green high pressure bottle. Gave them away - soon after they were dumped on my driveway. Some kids got it somewhere - and I bet it was hot. My kid was 6 months old so it wasn't him or his. :-)
The one I had from COKE - had a one way value on the gas tank - I suppose that prevents problems.
I call flat coke that sits in a glass or out of a can that falls on the floor and foams all over. Coke is coke - coffee is coffee - as long as it has water in it - it is just fine to me.
Martin
Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
Richard J Kinch wrote:

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let me put my 2 cents worth in.
I use a 5 gal homedepot bucket ,filled with 4 gal.distilled water, lid on the top , the same carbonator motor you got sits on top of the lid. I was lucky on my e-bay purchase because the fella' sent me the rubber insulator feet and an aluminum motor base, so the motr is susspended nicely. Anyway...... it is bolted to the plastic bucket lid.
The pumps sucks up the water from the bucket, via a plastic hose, on the pump output side: I installed a "T" fitting , one side goes to the torch, the other side of the " T " is a hort hose goes back to the bucket at the nd of the hose is a simple compressor water drain style drain petcock. It's purpose ; it dumps about half the water volume and pressure. With the twist/adjustment of the petcock valve volume and pressure to the torch can be adjusted.
From the torch water return line, I installed 2 clear plastic hose one is slightly larger than the other, the larger hose is a short hose pushed through the bucket lid.
this way there is always air in this hose, the return water is pissing into this larger clear hose allowing me to see the water flow.
I don't know what pressure it runs at the torch, but there is plenty return water flowing. the torch head is always cool,
there is no cooler or fan in this system. I use a Thermal arc 185 TIG, the water in the bucket never got even remotely hot.
the 1/4 HP motor is semi quiet I can still hear the water splashing.
I will snap some picture if some of you want to see it. (let me know)
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Great post Acrobat Ants. Yes, I would love to see [good] pictures. I do not quite visualize return water pissing. Otherwise, this is about the way I would want to have it. Do you keep it running all the time when the welder is on?
i

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here it is ;
pic 1 : bucket, pump ,and return line
http://home.austin.rr.com/rideatv/pump2.jpg
picture 2 : "T" fitting on the feeder line, dump valve sits on top of the lid
http://home.austin.rr.com/rideatv/pump1.jpg
very simple setup , right now it is manual-switch operated ON-OFF I turn it off when I put the torch down.
acrobat

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Very nice. Thank you. I will keep your post in my archive and will refer to it when I start working on my own cooler. Can you keep the pictures on your site, thanks.
i

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I will keep it there for a while..... till some other pictures need room (and force it out of my 5MB space the ISP gives me. :)
see if you can copy it to your hard drive, or capture it as a snap shot. no worries tho........ it will be there for a while....
PS: added some notes to picture pump 1
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:12:25 GMT, Ignoramus21085

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