Very OT: Waiting past your appointment at the clinic

wrote:


That could be a case of double-scheduling, though I'd be shocked if they were actually doing that for hour-long appointments.
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I have medical insurance and never even see the bill. Good idea, though.
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you

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That's all fine and dandy as long as you are willing to accept the doctor saying, "Sorry! Your 15 minutes are over." just when you say, "Oh, one more question, Doc."
The extra five minutes he spends with YOU comes off someone else's appointment time further down the line.
I don't understand where you get the notion that clinics don't get a lot of emergency walk-ins. They exist, primarily, to serve those who do not have Primary Care Physicians or Family Doctors that they see regularly.
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You don't understand. I'm not talking about the occasional exceptions, or even five-minute delays. I'm talking about consistently making people wait at least 10-20 minutes past their appointment. When it becomes apparent that most patients are getting seen, say, twenty minutes late; then you schedule appointments twenty minutes farther apart. It's not rocket science.

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying that clinics exist primarily to serve those who do not have Primary Care Physicians or Family Doctors that they see regularly?? If that's the case, then we are using two different definitions of the word "clinic." To me, a clinic is where you go to see your G.P./primary care physician or family doctor. Urgent care centers and emergency rooms are the places where most of the emergency cases would go.
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On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:38:27 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,

The main reason medical offices are always running late is greed. The office managers overbook in case someone doesn't show up. Doctors just hate having ten spare minutes to kill. It affects their bottom line. We can't have THAT!
-- You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus. -- Mark Twain
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I suspect that's true. I have been to clinics that have caught double-scheduling the same time slot with the same doctor for two different patients, and in some clinics I suspect they even triple-schedule.
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Agreed, and that's what I did.
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wrote:

Actually there is a good reason for this. Take a course in Queueing Theory.
Dan
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I disagree. The fact that my current clinic is always able to get me into the exam room within five minutes and the doctor coming in within five minutes after that is proof.

If you know something, say it. If not, kindly leave the discussion. Telling someone to "take a course" doesn't add anything to the conversation.
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wrote: after that is proof.

I will leave the discussion. Queueing Theory isn't something I want to try to explain to people that probably aren't interested anyway. But if you want to understand, that is what you want to learn.
Dan
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snipped-for-privacy@krl.org wrote in article

conversation.
So, you passed the course, but don't know enough about the subject to give a brief overview.....not even the course outline from a college catalogue?
That's today's "education" for you!
That, or you're just huffing and puffing and have only read the term "Queueing Theory" somewhere, and thought you could sound smarter than the average poster by tossing the term into your post.
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short summary:
if you have something always waiting in the queue, you optimize the throughput of the queue overall, but not the time of an individual of the queue. if you have empty queues, you have waiting time, startup and finishing time, and that slows down the performance of the pipeline.
ie: the doctor does more work if there are waiting patients. it's not an optimization of time of the waiting people, but of the doctor.
modern computer cpu's work the same way, btw.
regards, charlie http://glassartists.org/chaniarts
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Thank you!
That makes perfect sense. However, I think that the clinics take it way too far. If I have an appointment for 10:00 AM, they call me back to the exam room by 10:05, get my vitals and the doc comes in by 10:10, I don't mind. To me, it wouldn't be worth complaining about. However, the usual (except at the clinic I go to now) is that I'd get called back to the exam room around 10:10 or 10:20 and the doc would show up somewhere between 10:20 and 10:30.
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LOL! That's what I got out of his post as well.
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Quick Google:
http://www.new-destiny.co.uk/andrew/past_work/queueing_theory /
--------------------------------------
What is Queueing Theory?
Queueing Theory is the study of queues (sometimes called waiting lines). Most people are familiar with the concept of queues; they exist all around us in daily lives. Queueing Theory can be used to describe these real world queues, or more abstract queues, such as are often found in many branches of computer science, for example in operating system design. This section of the project explores the mathematics and theory of queueing theory. For more information on worked examples of queueing theory application, see the section on Applications of Queueing Theory.
Much of queueing theory is very complex. Almost all of it relies heavily on mathematics, especially statistics. This section investigates the mathematics and theory of queueing theory, but much of the mathematics is formidable (some of it beyond graduate mathematics level) and therefore beyond the author. Thus, most important results will be stated, but not derived (where possible, a source where a proof can be found will be included). The mathematics for the M / M / 1 model will be worked through partially, but results for many of the other queueing models will be summarised in a table.
-----------------------------------------------
I never even HEARD of the process before today, but I found several explainations under Google.
One would think that the one who introduced it into this thread could do something similar, rather than try to BS people.
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I am just huffing and puffing and have only read the term "Queueing Theory" somewhere, and thought I could sound smarter than the average poster by tossing the term around. Also figured that anyone interested could find information on the internet and pursue it to whatever level they wanted.
Glad you learned something new today. There is a real reason why one has a short wait at a doctors office. And as Dave Hinz noted it isn't to optimize your time. But to be fair there are a lot of people that don't mind a short wait. Gives one a chance to read that National Geographic that you did not read last year. Or if one is really organized, read some more of the book you have been reading.
Dan
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wrote:

And were too belligerant or ignorant to give a simple explanation like "charlie" did, compounding that with the arrogant statement "take a course." You act foolish, and people will take you for a fool.

Well, apparently you haven't been following the thread. I've noted several times that a short wait is acceptable. However, if I don't get to see the doctor until 15, 20 or more minutes after my appointment, that's not a "short wait" as I've defined it. The topic of discussion isn't why there's a short wait at the dental and medical clinics, but why there's usually a relatively long wait of a quarter to a half hour.
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wrote:

Way too ignorant to give a simple explanation. And too complacent to care if people think I am a fool. Who knows maybe I am a fool.
Dan
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wrote:

As someone who respects both you and Adam, seems to me, you're not a fool, and the google search terms you provided were more than sufficient and appropriate.
That said, this doesn't change the fact that me, as the customer, has a different optimization goal than the doctor. If they don't know how badly their staff is handling their appointments, tell them. If they know but don't care, change docs. It's a commodity product, no different than gasoline or sugar. If they don't meet your requirements, fire them and move on. Your expertise is no different than theirs, other than in the specific field of knowledge. If their staff is mishandling their schedule, tell them. If they don't fix it, fire them.
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I have a somewhat different outlook. As an ex engineer, I believe that there is a huge difference between the top 5 % of engineers and the average engineer. The really good engineers are worth much more than what they get paid and can out perform the average engineer by a factor of two or three. Just my belief, but not without some studies that substanciate the idea. The book Software Engineering Economics (Prentice-Hall Advances in Computing Science & Technology Series): by Barry W. Boehm says pretty much the same thing.
And I suspect the same thing applies to doctors. So I think a really good doctor is worth having as your doctor. Probably does not make a difference for most people most of the time, but......... So I would be loath to fire my doctor as I think she is better than average. On the other hand, because she is good, waiting has not been a problem. She has better than average staff, and they do fairly well at scheduling. If I had a doctor that I thought was average, I would be looking for another doctor, regardless of how well the staff scheduled.
I have given a few things to the doctor and staff. But I don't think that has had anything to do with how long I wait.
Dan
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