Welding gas tank sizes

Anyone got a visual or cite on the various sizes of welding/gas bottles and their designations?
I get confused as hell over this.
Shrug
What size is 135cf bottle of argon for example? Its not a B..which is about 5' tall..right?
Sigh...snivel...help!
Gunner
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Gunner wrote:

135 cu ft?
bottom of bottle is about 18" diameter = 2.25sqft so 135 cu ft = 60ft tall???????!!!!!!!
if it was 2ft across, then it's be 33 ft high
I gather that 135cf means at STP, not compressed?
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bigegg wrote:

You may have noticed, egg, that when you open the valve on a gas cylinder, gas actually flows OUT. This means, egg, that it's at a higher PRESSURE. It follows, egg, that it can actually occupy a smaller VOLUME.
Thank you for your worthwhile contribution.
GWE
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Grant Erwin wrote:

And thank you for your condescending tone, you patronising twat.
In the UK, a tank is sized in litres of tank volume, or weight of gas. I've never come across a gas being sold by volume at some abitrary non-STP pressure.
What pressure is the 135 cu ft measured at then?
--
BigEgg
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2100 PSI
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RAM wrote:

Thanks
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I suppose I deserved that. However, the most impartial of observers would hardly fail to note that it was NOT I who came up with the moniker "egg", now was it? In fact, it's really hard to see how anyone can take someone posting behind such a ludicrous pseudonym as "bigegg" seriously.
Your question was valid, it's your moniker and your whiny-ass tone I object to.
I rarely get involved with petty squabbles on this newsgroup, but some days I guess are an exception, sigh.
GWE
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Grant Erwin wrote:

apology accepted ;.)

That wasn't what I found condescending, it was the fact that you assumed I was ignorant of Boyles law (I couldn't be with my 'nick could I? :.D ) because I didn't know that capacity was measured by volume of gas at 2100PSi , rather than actual volume of the cylinder.
Why is it measured that way, anyway, rather than by weight?

My name is Brian Ian Gegg actually - hence B.I.Gegg; "BigEgg" since Primary (Grade?) school - when I was about 5.
And it's the same moniker I've been using on Usenet for going on 10 years - I'm not going to change it, just because you've taken exception to it now (despite us having had conversations on usenet as far back as 2003 and probably earlier)

So you decided to be insulting because of my name and the way I phrased my question.

oh well, tomorrow's another day - I hope you have a better one. As I said, apology accepted.
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bigegg wrote:

Most people would have a fit if they found out they had to pay a lot of money, and lug around a 50 Kilo cylinder to get 10 Grams of Hydrogen, for instance. It might not be such a shock with Argon, but there still is very little in that big bottle. Only the gases that condense to liquids under pressure get a sizable mass in the bottle.
Jon
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bigegg wrote:
<snip>

Unlucky, Grant. It looks like you bumped into one of the few guys who has a pretty good explanation behind his moniker :-).
Best wishes,
Chris
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Yea, but we all talk about you behind you back...but that gets boring quickly.
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RAM wrote:

The tanks are sold as containing "x" number of cubic feet of gas at atmospheric pressure, as in "would fill a bag this big" in use. 135 cu ft at 2100 psi would be a HUGE tank.
Since typical flowrate on the regulator is set in cubic feet per hour, this gives the user a decent idea of just how long a tank might last, if said user remembers to shut off the gas valve after each use.
Over in the North america side of the water, a 50cu ft tank is generally the small size that is available, about 8 inch diameter, 18 inches tall, plus or minus a bit.
The standard size bottles vary a bit from company to company, and sometimes whether the bottle is owned or leased.
Cheers Trevor Jones
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Trevor Jones wrote:

oops - should read "stored at"

Understood now - my gas meter reads pressure, rather than flow - I don't do gas welding, just stick - the meter is on a propane burner.

I think we'd call that a 5kg bottle, and would be weighed, filled, weighed and charged at so much per KG.

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bigegg wrote:

Your gas meter is for propane, not sheilding gas for welding. The gasses used (heliun, argon, CO2, etc) each have a different density. The better welding regs have different scales on them, for the different gasses. Usually the regs consist of a primary pressure reduction, feeding through a needle valve orfice, then through a flowmeter in the form of a ball in a tube, then to the welder and on to the torch or gun (for tig or mig, respectively).

You'd get a pile of argon into the bottle before the scale twitched even a little. Argon and most of the inert sheilding welding gasses are sold by volume, as they are pressurised gasses. CO2 is liquid in the tank, similar to propane, and is sold by weight.
Cheers Trevor Jones
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wrote:

50 cu ft of argon at STP would weigh 2.549 kg.
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"bigegg" wrote: Understood now - my gas meter reads pressure, rather than flow - I don't do gas welding, just stick - the meter is on a propane burner. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Unfortunately, you still don't have the right picture. A gauge on a propane tank is reading liquid level. The pressure does not drop as the level goes down, so it can't be used to read contents. The same is true of CO2 and butane.
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You should be busy turning in your knives, not posting here then.
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wrote:

About 2000 PSI
Gunner
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Gunner writes:

No, atmospheric pressure. The tank contains 135 cu ft of free gas, in compressed form.
Shades of the air compressor war-thread. Remember? Air compressors are rated in cubic ft/minute of free air, not compressed air. Some esteemed r.c.m colleagues could never grasp that.
An 80 cubic foot scuba tank has a volume of 0.4 cu ft, containing air compressed to about 200 bar.
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On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:56:56 -0600, Richard J Kinch

IO was refering to that volume stuffed into the tank.
But you are indeed correct.
Gunner
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