What is it? CCIX

I looked at every Google patent with "horse" and "ice". Nothing resembled it. I searched for "horse" and "mud" and "shoe" and found some similar cleats but nothing with a handle. I should look more carefully through the horse overshoes to see if any has a pattern of three studs on top.

Were there only two? For two legged horses? How about ice-fishing shacks about 1880? You wouldn't want to blow across the ice when the wind came up. So you put these under posts at diagonally opposite corners. You lever up the corner and use the handle to position the device without taking off your mitt or mashing your hand.

Reply to
Bill Rider
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That convinces me it was a horse overshoe. That crafty inventor didn't mention ice or mud!

A wet clay bank can be hard to climb if the clay is firm. I wonder if the device in the photos was for slick spots like that. I think the handles would have been detrimental in the long run but might have made the overshoes easier to put on and remove.

Herman also invented a match safe and a tire chain. Maybe he fashioned the device and filed for a patent, but it wasn't feasible and no patent was granted.

Reply to
Bill Rider

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I found the patent digging through the source, US Patent Office website and searching on Class numbers. Sometimes Google won't get it...

If you look at the first patent the part you are calling a "handle" was used to hold a strap in place. What Rob took pictures of seems to have been missing a few parts.

One thing I have learned by pawing through old patents is that there were an awful lot of items that were never actually produced. The Patent office doesn't care if something is practical or not, but rather if it is unique or novel in design or function...

Reply to
Leon Fisk

Something doesn't have to be "feasible" to be patented. Boeing (IIRC) has a patent for a dinghy to be towed behind an airplane while suspended under a square parachute.

Reply to
J. Clarke

Well, it wasn't patented in 1914 as a 168/30. I wish I knew what the classifications meant.

I would not call the part in the patent drawing a handle. It's short and light, as one would expect of something designed to hold a strap behind a hoof.

So as long as it was filed it should have been granted if it was unique. Would any additional fee or paperwork have been required of the inventor?

I see it now! Herman lived in or near DC. The War Department was worried that the cavalry would miss the war. The horses needed cleats to climb out of the trenches and charge the machine guns. How do you recruit young men to charge machine guns on horseback? With images of troopers happily toasting bread over a campfire. So Herman invented a combination horse overshoe and toaster!

Reply to
Bill Rider

To put you out of your misery. :-)

Tom

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Reply to
Tom

Might try again... To put you out of your misery. :-)

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Tom

Reply to
Tom

I've seen winter shoes used in New England during the winter but they were basically regular shoes with caulks in them. But I remember my Grand dad talking about skidding timber across the lake after it froze and the shoes shown would work well for that and you could tie them on over the normal shoes.

Bruce-in-Bangkok (Note:remove underscores from address for reply)

Reply to
Bruce in Bangkok

Awesome, thanks Leon! Just updated the answer page with a link to the patent.

Rob

Reply to
R.H.

Tom gave you a link for classifications. Here is another one that I prefer:

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Actually it was patented in 1914 under two classifications:

Issue Date: May 19, 1914 Current U.S. Class: 168/1 ; 168/30

See:

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Searching pre-1976 patents via the US Patent website isn't for the faint of heart though. There was something like 367 patents granted for classification 168/30 in the database. I was just a bit lucky in finding this one. You don't hear about all my failures in finding these things...

Many times I have noticed that the patent drawings are not exactly the same as the manufactured device. I suspect that the "handle" part was changed in the produced item. Either for better performance/ease of use or simply because it was easier to make.

I far from being a patent expert, just a curious person that likes puzzles, probably much like yourself :)

Reply to
Leon Fisk

Definitions! Thanks!

The tiff images have always been a problem. Safari, my usual browser, opens them too big. If I want to see the whole page at once, it takes extra steps. Firefox shows me the whole page but often won't open them at all.

For a human's sandal, the little "handle" in the patent drawing looks reasonable for holding a strap that would pass over the instep. The "handle" in Rob's photos looks too big and obtrusive for that.

I have another idea. With a motor vehicle, shifting to the right gear can help you cross mud without spinning and bogging. Perhaps it worked best for a horse pulling something on a slippery surface to take small steps. Perhaps these "handles" were intended to accept straps that could limit the size of the steps. If the strap were too close to the hoof it might get tangled in the cleats.

Fortunately I enjoy being wrong, which opens a lot more opportunities than being right.

Reply to
Bill Rider

Out of my misery? Now I'm more obsessed than ever! :)

Reply to
Bill Rider

Use the US Patent site to locate the patent number of interest. Feed the patent number to Google and let them display the image as a png which most browsers can render directly. Here is my Google search string:

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Replace the %s in the above string with the patent number of interest. Like this:

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This will give you Googles general patent search page with number 1096912 results. Usually the first link is what you will want to persue farther.

I use the Opera web browser and have that set up as a special search and can just highlight some text, right-click on it and search via a popup menu.

If you just want one individual patent number use:

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Sometimes Google fails and won't cough up a good patent number. If I really want to see it then I look at the tif image via US Pat.

Reply to
Leon Fisk

Well, I've checked the 168/30s from January 1, 1910 to January 1, 1920. I've found a third Joseph Herman cleat: 991,778.

I haven't found anything like Rob's photos. I wonder if it was classified as a training device, to train draft horses to take small steps. Either that or a toaster. :)

Reply to
Bill Rider

I saw/looked at the earlier patent too. It didn't seem relevant to this discussion so I didn't mention it.

If I was a betting man (I'm not) I would put my money on the first patent I listed previously as to the one in Rob's photo.

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Notice that the patent uses the same odd looking round knobs on the front and the cleats underneath are virtually identical. Both in size and placement.

Note too that the "handle" part that bothers you would actually be partially underneath the horses hoof.

The patent image/drawing was an earlier version and the one that Rob took pictures of was a production model. What was changed cosmetically had nothing to do with what earned Joseph a patent on this device.

Another thing of interest was that it took over two years for the patent to be granted. The application date was Jan

29, 1912 and the grant was for May 19, 1914. That was a long time back then for a simple device. I noticed in doing past research that many simple items were granted in 6 months or less. Sometimes a year. I don't know why this one took over 2 years.

That's my story anyway :)

Reply to
Leon Fisk

Notice that the patent has only one lug on top of the plate, to rest behind the toe of the shoe. Rob's has three, to rest inside the shoe at three points.

It looks more than cosmetic to me. The inventor said the back stay was malleable iron to be flexible so the three stays would embrace the hoof. Rob's back stay doesn't look at all flexible.

Rob's system would depend on engaging the shoe with three lugs on the overshoe. That's not described in the patent.

Here's another one that took more than two years: 2,247,674. The patent office classifies it as a combination bread slicer and horse cleat. If Ronald Reagan were alive we could ask him if it wasn't images of troopers toasting bread over a campfire that enticed him to enlist in the cavalry. :)

Reply to
Bill Rider

... snip ...

Obviously the machine crashed :-)

Reply to
CBFalconer

That is a good a reason as any (grin).

In just doing casual research I've notice that the earlier patents slipped through the system faster. As the years progressed (closer to today) they take longer. Current back log is huge. See for current estimates:

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Reply to
Leon Fisk

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